Yeah, I’m giving up after this.
The Democratic party just can’t deal with the stupidity and racism that is the American population.
I mean for fucks sake, Black and Latino voters increased their votes for Trump this time around.
Just time to hang up the hat and let America burn.
Also:
Biden got 81,282,916 votes
Harris got 66,153,556 votes
Americans didn’t even bother to show up and now we have a Republicans in control of all three branches again. Yeah, there’s no saving this democracy.
Don’t forget they are going to intentionally force us back to coal and oil, and stifle all transitions to cleaner energy. So really how bad could it be
Oh yeah, the world is pretty fucked here. We’re at a tipping point for climate disaster.
Honestly, maybe this is what the cure is for humanity.
The Oxygen Catastrophe wasn’t a one-time poisoning. It was a series of oxygenation waves, killing themselves off only to rebuild and kill themselves off again. We were never cured of the oxygen polluters.
It’s going to be interesting when climate refugees start overwhelming the habitable regions (like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, and Wisconsin), driving housing costs even higher. People who think housing prices are high now will rudely awaken when the influx of people from the coastal regions – who have not only been displaced by climate disasters but have also lost their savings, and insurance will not bail them out – are competing for already limited affordable housing and local jobs.
But of course more drilling will totally fix that, right?
Well see they fixed that by taking the cheaper labor sources for fixing coastal roofs after storms and actively paying to have them removed from the country, while no longer accepting their taxes. : )
Everyone knows when you increase labor shortages, and prices for construction material, construction costs and insurance go down! …wait
Easter Islanders cut down all the their trees, so they couldn’t even escape the collapse their behavior brought on. We’re going to see that world wide now.
Maybe a lot of Democrats also dislike women in power and black people. Maybe the American people, regardless of the party they say they support, are still very conservative. This is not an unpopular opinion outside the USA.
Yes. That is the ultimate conclusion for me as well. The American people voted for racism and sexism, because they are racist and sexist. America can’t do better because this is the best we have. Trump represents conservatives. It’s really confusing because his actions aren’t conservative… but here we are.
This is the best we have
The best America can do is fucking awful. It’s been this way for years. We elected Bush II twice. We elected Reagan twice. We elected Nixon twice. It’s always been a shitty country filled with terrible people.
I’d like to say I’m glad other people are starting to realize something I’ve known for years, but people are going to get hurt because “patriotic liberals” didn’t have the courage to admit we’re the shithole country.
I don’t think it’s that simple, but it’s understandable to think like this just the next morning after such a defeat.
This is insane. This was a failure of the Democratic party.
It was a failure of the voter. No campaign Harris could’ve ran would’ve won. Biden needed to pick a different veep, that’s why this is happening. Had it been a white guy, we’d be fine. Race and sex do matter
Democrats had a mulligan. Instead of finding a candidate that gave them the best chance, they pick the person next in line. Would have been difficult to pick someone else? Yes. Would it have been worth it? I think so.
We cant really test that theory now
But we can hold the decision makers accountable.
Nah. Trump got fewer votes (when you account for the ~4% population growth since the 2020 election) than last time, while Dems lost a fuckton of votes, compared to 2020.
Trump won, both the election, and the popular vote, not because he got Dems to vote for him, but because a dozen million Dems decided not to vote at all.
You are saying, in other words, that a black woman with indian ancestry and an exemplary career in the government was not enough incentive to go vote for self-perceived progressive people? That was actually my point.
Exemplary? Lol
Honestly, yeah. She’s been in government positions for decades and hasn’t had any real scandals. The worst thing I heard was that when she was a DA, her department worked with the local police, and the police department had a lab tech that was stealing cocaine and was testing the product at work several times. And a judge scolded the police department and DA office for not doing a better job handling that issue.
She had a pretty decent record of good morals and making effective, positive changes. Unless there’s someone I haven’t heard
Exemplary. Not saying she excelled at everything, but she had several responsibilities in different levels of government and never was impeached or tried for anything related to her work. Lol.
a dozen million Dems decided not to vote at all.
Maybe. Some things just don’t add up. Historic number of bullet ballots and Democrats winning in down-ballot races where Kamala lost, not to mention the rampant voter disenfranchisement and vote challenges that threw thousands of ballots out. Don’t forget Musk buying votes in Pennsylvania and spending a quarter of a billion dollars on the election.
Honestly, yeah, there would have to be a decent amount of them with almost 20 million voters who didn’t show up to vote.
Americans didn’t even bother to show up and now we have a Republicans in control of all three branches again.>
Absolutely. Trump did not have a significant bump in votes, 10 million voters did not turn out, or so early figures show. Of them, it’s largely white suburban males. Apathy leads to populism. Dr. King had something to say about white liberals…
Sure but at the same time Blacks and Latinos made significant bumps to the Trump vote here too. I would have to imagine that Dr. Kind would have some choice words for them too.
When the plague of face-eating leopards arrives, I will be interested in the responses of the people who never thought their faces would get eaten
I’m sorry that part of my immigrant family is this stupid. Thankfully, they can’t vote fwiw. 🤷♂️
Don’t feel bad man, your family isn’t you and you can’t control when your family does something stupid. Heck my immigrant family that can vote was going on about not voting this year because of both sides bullshit and I had to talk them that yeah, you need to vote regardless. Not that it mattered because native born Americans are such a lost cause at this point.
My parents didn’t vote either. They’re also upset that they don’t have many choices because they’re independents. To them it doesn’t matter who the president is, to them it is inconsequential.
Then encourage them on reforms to get rid of First-past-the-post and they may get someone who is capable of thinking and breathing to vote for.
They think.
They (and the rest of us) are going to find out it is consequential
Today is a dark day. But, I will say this…
When the world gets dark, new lights often appear. It’s a funny thing, but good people tend to be quiet and reserved. It’s the anger of the patient person, and the good people pushed too far, that often can incite the most change. As Mr. Rogers’ mother famously told him - look for the helpers when you see scary things unfold.
It’s time for the helpers.
I hope everyone reading this understands what this means. We must help now. Don’t look for the helpers, because we aren’t children, as Fred Roger’s once was…
Protect the people around you, especially the vulnerable and those at the most risk. Do it at the cost of your safety and well-being.
Cruelty has won a great battle today, but it can’t win the war without a fight.
Alright, give me some hope we can still prevent like >3°C global warming, cause I ain’t having any hope left.
We can’t prevent that.
Tough times make tough people
Tough people make easy times.
Easy times make weak people.
Weak people make tough times. <--------We are here.
Tough times make Tough people <------ Your light of hope.
Tough times make Tough people <------ Your light of hope.
No, the tough times were 2020-2024 when the fallout of Trump policies raised the cost of living, helped erode women’s rights to their own bodies, and encouraged corporate enshittification to go even more out of control.
It’s now “tough times make bigoted people who scapegoat minorities,” apparently.
Nobody said the tough times would end after just four years. I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better. The night has just begun, and it’s time for the lantern bearers to find their lights.
I’m American. They can’t have my country without a fight. I’ll fight every ounce of their cruelty with kindness, and displace their xenophobia and racism with acceptance and support.
There are millions of us.
Damn straight. That’s the same thing I tell people when I was asked if I was going to try to leave the US.
I may be disabled, but I swore to defend the Constitution from foreign and domestic threats. It’s not just the racist and homophobic people who have firearms. When the time comes, the quiet people will show up to help.
The quiet people peck, scratch, and bite when they need to protect the people they care about. And Mr. Roger’s taught my generation to care about everyone.
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I volunteered at county Dem HQ and was tasked with texting Dem voters who hadn’t shown up at the polls by noon. Each page had maybe 50 names on it. And only 3 or 4 voters typically voted. It was a disaster.
Maybe now the party will learn that guilting and harassing people doesn’t work. If I get an unsolicited text from a campaign, it makes me significantly less likely to vote for that candidate. I’m not going to reward that sort of tactic.
So… what do you propose to do instead with respect to organizing?
Encouraging the DNC to hold primaries and take their thumb off the scale would be a good start. Don’t call me. Call them.
In addition to what you said, I wonder how Biden and then Harris deciddd to become the nominee. What the methodology was. The dems could have hired a psychologist who could have guided them on the kind of candidate that would have won the American people over. They could have hired a pr team to help manage their campaign. The dems essentially took a bigger risk than it did in 2016 and it backfired on them again… except this time less people voted.
Yeah I have zero fucks left. I am done with this bullshit. I canvassed for the first and last time this election as it’s quite clear it did jack shit. I’m withdrawing from being a concerned citizen. The idiots voting for this shit can have it. I’m going full libertarian in my lifestyle. My family matters and nothing else. I am truly sorry for those who didn’t vote for this and will suffer greatly. I just can’t do it anymore.
…it could be that America isn’t racist and you’ve been fed a big lie.
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Yes, all those Jewish, Black, and Arab Nazis, they all showed up and unified. ಠ_ಠ
And if you’re talking about the Puerto Rico joke, you know that it’s based on the very real issue of overflowing landfill trash they have over there, right? Are you aware of the attention it brought to that issue? Why do you think PR flipped red?
Do you think that Puerto Rico gets to vote in the presidential election??? Also show me where Puerto Rico flipped red.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_straw_poll_in_Puerto_Rico
But no worries there bud, you can calm down there, America is on your racist side.
I know enough history to know you’re full of shit
You’re imagining a future that had a far better chance of happening under the dem ticket. We escaped pure tyranny last night. I couldn’t be more relieved
So you’re not just full of shit you’re also spreading it around.
Big claims with nothing to back it up.
Yeah it’s never the fault of the party, it’s all those stupid people exercizing their right to choose. Maybe if dems didn’t put all their worth in being “the least worst option” and actually tried to be a good party this wouldn’t have happened.
End of the day, Americans voted for a proven rapist, a convicted felon, and a white supremacist to the oval office over someone who isn’t so yeah, stupid people exercising their right to vote are to blame. Enjoy your tariffs.
“My” tariffs? You think i am happy for this? You are part of those stupid americans maybe, incapable of understanding that not everyone that does not think like you is your enemy
I don’t think you’re the enemy, I simply think you’re not very bright.
I don’t know why you are considering them not bright here. Empirically, being the least worst option has barely worked with record turn out during an active pandemic. Aside from that, not being a convicted rapist is simple not enough to motivate people to the voting booths, so maybe the tactics need to change? I can argue what ought to be, but the simple reality is very clear, “Not Trump” isn’t a winning strategy and we should try something else.
I don’t know why your getting downvoted, evidence shows your right
My guess is that it’s a bit reality shattering to contend with the fact that lying and cheating is plenty good enough to not only win, but win in a landslide. Harsh truths and all.
I’ll continue to deny claims that Kamala was “least worst”. She seemed like a pretty good option to me, and the only criticisms I’ve heard of her were that she was not quite perfect on every issue they cared about.
The highest she ever polled in the 2020 primaries was 15%, very briefly, reaching a low of 3% before she dropped out of that race.
She was always a bizarre choice to thrust into that position all of a sudden. Biden should have bowed out much earlier, and Dems should have selected the replacement with a primary.
They set themselves up to fail, to the tune of millions of blue voters who didn’t vote red, they just weren’t motivated enough to vote at all.
IMO, she was a bad choice of VP in 2020 during the Black Lives Matter protests over George Floyd’s murder. The optics of picking someone who was dubbed “California’s top cop” felt like a slap in the face. Whether that moniker was deserved or not, perception often matters more than facts when dealing with what is effectively a popularity contest.
So is no one here in comments calling her a bad candidate? Are you just citing external favorability? The label of “least worst option” came from a commenter, not a nameless poll statistic. I’d question whether that’s really an external reference, and not a personal attack on her character.
To me it wasn’t even close because there was nothing outwardly negative about Kamala. So, I’m looking to identify specific thoughts that lead to that unfavorability.
And, be warned, in the lack of anything else, the thoughts “She’s a woman” and “She’s black” come up as the reason for it; indicating that the derived stance of the person above is “The democratic party should never run with minorities.”
Considering voter turnout for the Democrats was abysmal compared to 2020, yes: it is the fault of those stupid people choosing to abstain from voting because good enough wasn’t good enough.
If a campaign’s job is to get people to turn out then the campaign failed.
the voters must do everything they can to prevent democrats from shooting themselves in the foot.
Whatever you do, don’t blame voters though. The only people who could possibly be at fault here are Democrats. Because voters are perfect little angels. Who can blame them for their strong desire for fascism? That’s just human nature after all
I get it, everyone is upset that Trump won (including myself). But the voters are not solely to blame here.
Democrats put forward a candidate who lost to fascism. What does that say about your policies, your messaging, how the voters feel about you when you tell them “You have to vote for me because I’m not the other guy!”
Y’all need to accept that 1. The Democrats can grasp defeat from the jaws of victory like no one else, and 2. The American people want change, they want progress, they have had enough of the status quo system that isn’t working for them anymore.
They spent the last four years living under Biden, and despite all the screeching about how well the economy was doing, Americans don’t feel it. And instead of addressing that, or doing anything about it, Biden and the Democrat establishment would just point the finger at Republicans and say, “No, no, they’re worse, trust us, they’re worse, they’re worse.”
They’ve spent a year telling Americans, despite everything they’re seeing and hearing from Palestine, that Israel needs this unconditional support, while the world votes to hold Israel accountable and the US vetos it, under a Democrat administration. Multiple times, while refusing to let any Palestinians on stage at the DNC to speak, but parading Republican after Republican because they finished licking Trump’s ass and decided to give Kamala’s a go. Arab and Muslim Americans organized a protest vote, over 100,000 strong in Michigan alone (which she’s projected to lose, btw), and the Democrats sent Bill Clinton to lecture them on how Israel is only doing what’s necessary to defend themselves.
So we’ve had four years of milquetoast progress at best from a candidate the Democrat’s constituency already didn’t like. He dropped out but didn’t leave enough time for a new primary, so the Democrat Party pushed Kamala on us, and then had her run on a centrist, return-to-the-status-quo platform, while refusing to take any meaningful stand on Palestine, with their biggest policy being, “Hey, you have to vote for us because we’re not fascist.”
If the American people, people in general, don’t feel like they’re being represented, why would the feel like voting? This is a failure on the Democrats, 100%, for running platform policies and candidates that don’t drive people to the polls. Say what you want about Trump, and there’s plenty to say about the absolute piece of shit of a human being he is.
But he makes his voters feel listened to and heard, and Democrats may consider it regression, but Republicans get their policies done, and they show progress to their constituents. Democrats get nothing done, usually due to Republican fuckery, but the Republicans don’t face similar fuckery, so the average voter doesn’t care, they just see one wide getting their agenda accomplished and the other not.
So now I pose this question to you, and I’m genuinely asking, this isn’t an “I gotcha, I am so smart!”
If a person doesn’t feel represented by their government regardless of who’s in power, and your life doesn’t drastically improve under either candidate, well… What difference does it make which form of government is fucking you over?
You can say this but when a republican policy is “drill for more oil” and a democratic policy is “focus on clean energy,” one is easier, cheapens prices, and has readily apparent effects. Many democrat policies are long term goals that people won’t notice, and might even hurt them in the short term, but they need to be done. Medicare will increase taxes, supporting Ukraine and not taking Russian oil increases prices, and most people agree these policies are good things. Yet what is the biggest complaint under Biden? Skyrocketing inflation, because the average voter doesn’t care about policy they just care how it affects their lives.
You’re asking for an impossible solution if you want the party of “this is a hard decision but will benefit us all in the future” to have the same draw as “here’s cheaper prices NOW, we’ll ignore the future.” Not to mention as you already said republicans will block any and all attempts at real change. It’s completely unfair that even if 90% of a democrat candidate’s platform is beneficial, that’s not good enough since they don’t have the short-term effects to wow people with. If democratic policies reduced prices and republican policies increased them (say, swap the stances on oil and climate), we could have a literal potato as the candidate and people would run to vote for it.
I’ve written a lot of comments this morning, and I don’t remember which one’s I’ve said what in, so I apologize if I’m repeating something.
I understand what you’re saying, it’s not fair that the Democrats have an unrealistic standard compared to the Republicans. But the Democrats have to figure that out and get over it, and they’re just not.
I’m seeing a lot of polls now showing the biggest factor for Americans voting was the economy. The economy has, verifiably, improved under Biden, and I will not argue against that.
But polls also consistently show that, despite the improved economy, Americans don’t feel it. And that’s the problem: the Dems were presented this information (Americans don’t feel better under this economy), and just kept doubling down, spouting metrics that mean nothing to the average American.
I think in response to the economy polling, Harris trotted out the $15/hr minimum wage increase. In our political hellscape, that’s a progressive policy. But it’s 10 years too late… Minimum wage should be around $26/hr if it was (and should be) tied to inflation, the magic buzzword everyone has on their mind. But they’re not campaigning on $26/hr, they’re barely campaigning on $15/hr.
Someone in another thread pointed out bodily autonomy and how much worse it would get under Trump. Fair enough, but what has Biden shown the American people he’s done about bodily autonomy in the last 4 years? Why wasn’t it enshrined into law at any point during the decades since the initial Roe ruling? Why should voters believe Democrats are actually going to do it this time and not continue using abortion as a campaign tool?
You and I both know the answers to all of the questions above are not black and white, their answers range from the complexity of different administrations to the limited power within the executive branch to Democrats lacking a political majority outside of a few months every couple decades, etc. I get that, but even I’m tired of it being an excuse, and the average American doesn’t even consider the excuse. They just don’t care: they see their money worth less, their paycheck barely increasing to match inflation most years, and laws not being passed.
On the flip side, Trump got a lot done in his first four years, regardless of whatever legal obstacles got in his way. This flies in the face of our constitution and the very rule of law and is a direct threat to our democracy…
… But he got things done. No one can deny that, Trump got things done, and he did things his base wanted him to. As much as Trump hates his base, he at least panders to them, and if he doesn’t support them, he shows faux support, which is good enough. He represents the worst of humanity, is a serial rapist, convicted felon, racist, misogynist, sexist, xenophobic, transphobic, homophobic orange shit stain on the annals of history…
But he got things done, and in the eyes if the average American, Biden didn’t, and Harris promised 4 more years of the same. So voters stayed home, and it is 100% the Democrats fault.
You’ve said a lot here that I agree with, but ultimately the responsibility is on the voters to be competent, critical thinkers that at least attempt to be informed. And they (we) are not. But unfortunately this just appears to be an entropy point built into our current system. And it facilitates one party over the other. Republicans are an ideologically unified authoritarian block that denies critical and strategic thinking in its platform and is structured only to identify problems but not sustainable solutions. They’ve always been this. The current Democratic party, otoh, is a big tent party focused on long term solution plans to nuanced problems and has many stakeholders that are ideologically opposed such that actual compromise may be fundamentally impossible. I honestly don’t know if this CAN be overcome. It’s a tough spot to be in. What i do know is that the next 4 years, at a minimum, are going to be mad dash of regulatory capture and federal collapse the likes we haven’t seen since the 20s.
but ultimately the responsibility is on the voters to be competent, critical thinkers that at least attempt to be informed.
I disagree, it’s a politicians job during a campaign to convince people to vote for them. I agree that voters should be informed, but if someone chooses not to vote, I view that as a failure of the candidate, not the voter.
You have the right to vote, you don’t have the obligation (some countries do, and I wish we did, but we do not). And no candidate is entitled to a vote simply for existing.
Beyond that… Yeah, you and I are basically on the same page. I appreciate that you’ve been civil about this, and I want to reiterate: I do believe the Democrats are the lesser of two evils, by a long shot. I do believe they should have gotten more support, and I really wish they had turned out the vote.
But they didn’t, and I don’t think it’s fair to blame apathetic voters when the worst option was “fascism,” but the lesser evil was “status quo that you’re drowning under, with a touch of genocide.” Trump supporters? Yeah, they’re… Everything they want the world to believe they are, they have no excuse for gladly marching into fascism.
But I don’t blame apathetic voters for not wanting to participate in a system they don’t feel represented in, and aren’t inspired by either candidate to vote in.
Why though? Isnt part of living in a democracy an obligation to be well informed and making the correct choice, depending on whatever your ideological beliefs might be?
If inflation is hurting my family, isn’t the proper course of action for me to figure out what the causes and possible short and long term solutions are? Why is the onus on the politician to wow me with buzzwords in a 10 second tiktok, which ultimately will be half truth at best? If anything I need to follow up with more rigor and view their platforms and their past records.
I get it, its too much work. I get it, the Democrats did horrible messaging on multiple fronts. Kamala was definitely reserved and filtered in all her appearances and facing an uneven playing field.
But to absolve 80 million voters (a second time) by saying “theyre just angry you see, they dont know any better where to direct this anger to” is unfair.
But to absolve 80 million voters (a second time) by saying “theyre just angry you see, they dont know any better where to direct this anger to” is unfair.
Ah, see, the general vibe on Lemmy has been to criticize and shame people who didn’t vote, and that’s where I thought your debate was coming from. I cast no blame on anyone who either didn’t vote or voted third party.
If we’re talking the 80 million who voted for Trump a second time? Oh yeah, absolutely, fair game on that front. The only defense I have for them, which I think is important to understand for Democrats to maybe start winning, is that they want change.
And Trump, as shitty as he and his cohorts are, showed them they can change things dramatically during the course of a single presidency. It’s shitty change, and many of them don’t live in reality, so I’ve just been discounting them entirely. But it’s still observable change that usually aligns with what they want.
Biden/the Democrats have made change, but it’s not… Flashy enough? It’s not enough, the status quo isn’t enough for the voting base they need, and they need to adjust their platform accordingly.
So yeah, if you’re criticism is of those who voted for Trump, I agree completely, I’m as angry and disappointed as you are (though not surprised). I just don’t think it’s fair to blame non-voters and third party for the Democrats failing to convince them they’re worth voting for.
You’ve probably seen this but this video is basically exactly why this is the case. I suppose the only path forward is for democrats to exploit anything they can and go even lower (like increasing the number of justices so you get a majority) and then both parties race to see who can exploit the constitution more. I think no democrat wants to do this because it would be insanity, but the Republicans have been doing it for years so there really aren’t many options left.
What difference does it make which form of government is fucking you over?
Democrats wanted to incrementally improve things. Republicans wanted to round us up into camps.
Voters had an opportunity to prevent a christo-fascist dictatorship and they didn’t take it. Moving things to the left in this country has always involved voting. Losing our democracy doesn’t improve the Democratic Party. If there is another election, which we can’t count on, Democrats are going to learn that they need to move further to the right to pick up votes. They’ve done it before, and they will do it again. They will look at the conservatives who voted and tailor a party platform for them.
Democrats could not care less about appealing to nonvoters or third party voters. They only care about winning, which is probably part of why they suck at it.
Voting should be a mechanical choice during elections. If people want better candidates, organize, and do the work to get grassroots movements off the ground between elections.
Instead of picking a strategy based on a subjective morality people should consider analyzing strategies based on their utility.
If a strategy advances a goal it’s useful. If it doesn’t, it’s not. Voting for the Democrats demonstrates a wider voting base for them to move to the left. Moving Democrats to the left is the goal so this strategy is useful. Protest voting takes votes away from the Democrats so they look for voters on the right. This accomplishes the opposite of the goal so this strategy is not useful.
Democrats wanted to incrementally improve things.
They’ve had four years to, and to the average American, they didn’t. They improved things, but not enough for the average American to notice, or care.
In comparison, regardless of how he did it, Trump got things done that his base wanted.
Democrats are going to learn that they need to move further to the right to pick up votes. They’ve done it before, and they will do it again. They will look at the conservatives who voted and tailor a party platform for them.
They did that this time and lost. They did it in 2016 and lost. The Democrats want a return to the status quo, and nothing else. Americans want change, the status quo is not working for them, but the Democrat party will not try to rally the vote. They scream about Republicans and voter suppression, but where’s the law mandating voting? Or making it a federal holiday? Or requiring paid time off to vote for essential employees?
You’re talking about strategy, well, progressives want to align with the Democrats, right? The FPTP system only allows for two viable parties, right, because winner takes all, and third parties can’t compete? Therefore, progressive third party candidates, under the current system, can’t gain any political power because the system is broken, right?
Ok, so let’s work within the system we have. Republicans are fascist, not very progressive, guess that leaves the Democrats. And they seem open to it! But they keep telling us no, now’s not the right time for XYZ, we don’t have the support, we have to stop/prevent XYZ. We keep voicing concerns and want our issues addressed, and we keep being ignored, told we have to get back to normal before we can move forward, condescended to, or outright dismissed.
You keep saying the Democrats will just keep moving right, and that’s exactly the point I’m making, and the reason people didn’t go out in droves for Harris. You keep saying the Democrats will just try to keep stealing Republican voters, well, then they deserve to lose. 37% of eligible voters vote, and instead of trying to garner that other 63% of the voters to come out, they’ll cut off their nose to spite their face and refuse to adopt progressive, populist policies?
You’re basically telling me the Democrat’s strategy is, “Do what we say or we’ll become more like the fascists.” Cool, so delayed fascism versus fascism… Hence “what difference does it make if our wants don’t matter.”
No, voting is part of how we move the Overton window to the left. If we don’t vote, it moves to the right.
The parties are not the same. Democrats passed the infrastructure bill, cancelled student load debt, and appointed judges to the courts that uphold our rights. They did those things in response to pressure from grassroots movements that showed the viability of progressive causes. Republicans separated immigrant families, took reproductive freedom away from Americans, and led an insurrection against our country. People who aren’t watching Fox News or otherwise trapped in right-wing information silo can tell them apart.
There’s no way to argue you out of a con. You’ve been duped and we need people like you to realize it. Or things will not get better. The people who sold you the both sides narrative are gone. They spread their misinformation, tanked American democracy, and now you are still parroting their talking points.
I am begging you. You have been fooled. Please believe me. Again, it is not possible for me to argue you out of this. You have to trust someone. If you can’t trust me or any of the other people on lemmy saying the same thing, find someone irl you can trust. That’s the only way you can get better.
First of all, do not tell me that I’ve been “duped” or don’t understand the situation, because I could say the exact same of you thinking the parties are not the same. And to be clear, I did not claim they’re both the same side, in fact, if you go back and look at a lot of my comments from the last week (excluding today), I actually explicitly point out that I encourage everyone to vote for Harris.
But she is not a progressive candidate, and she never ran as a progressice candidate. Everyone here is always screaming about “When someone shows you who they are, believe them” about Trump and his ilk, but none of you will apply the same scrutiny to the Democrats and their party leadership.
As the campaign went on, Harris moved further to the right, and that is evident by her adopting some of Biden’s policies (Biden, btw, is still detaining immigrants at the border and doing all of the things we criticize the Republicans for, in fact, his administration actually helped pass a more strict immigration policy for the border). She garnered as much former Republican support as she could (no Palestinians were allowed to speak at the DNC, but they had how many Republicans parade across the stage).
I am begging you. You have been fooled. Please believe me. Again, it is not possible for me to argue you out of this. You have to trust someone. If you can’t trust me or any of the other people on lemmy saying the same thing, find someone irl you can trust. That’s the only way you can get better.
This is the kind of shit I would expect to hear from a cult, not someone trying to have a rational discussion about the failings of a political party. She showed us she cared more about garnering the votes of Republicans than she did trying to win over progressive non-voters within her own party. Biden has shown us he’s made progress, but not to the average American, and not in any meaningful way.
And y’all need to stop acting like Harris got on stage and by virtue of not being Trump was going to save this country. She’s a career centrist Democrat who ran on a centrist platform, promising a centrist return to the status quo that centrist Joe Biden has been leading us through for four years.
Y’all keep trying to get your party on board with incremental change while they witness landfall change coming from the other party. Maybe the Democrats need to adopt more progressive policies and run candidates voters want to vote for for fucking once, instead of counting in someone to vote against.
Or they can keep screaming that our voices, concerns, and wants don’t matter, and they can keep trying to pander votes from a demographic (Republicans) that will never fucking support them. And, just like in 2016, they care more about the support of people who would never support them.
They lost because of it, and that’s on them. The Democrats need to win voters to their party, and this bullshit Republican-lite “we’re not fascist and we totally promise this time we’ll actually make progress for realsies” isn’t working anymore. I hope they choose to go progressive, but looks more like the Democrats will just shift further right, alienating more progressive voters and giving fascism a stronger foothold next election (assuming we have one).
Kamala was a neoliberal, who would improve things incrementally, running against a fascist. We all knew she wasn’t an ideal candidate and told people that. I know I did. We know the Democrats are neoliberals, a right leaning political position. We needed to delay fascism four more years to get a progressive or socialist candidate in the next Democratic primary. We failed.
It’s over. We lost the election. You were had. I’m sorry that happened. It can happen to anyone.
Take a break, when you feel better, come back. People will be organizing to fight back against fascists. This time, please join them instead of arguing against them. Saying ‘both sides’ isn’t helping.
You were had.
It’s people like you that just prove my point.
I voted for Harris. I wasn’t “had.”
We needed to delay fascism four more years to get a progressive or socialist candidate in the next Democratic primary.
Yeah, I’m fucking tired of hearing this. Y’know what could’ve delayed fascism and turned out the vote? Any measurable progress for the average American over the last four years.
You’re so oblivious to it, and you act like you’re the only one who actually gets it. You think Biden’s mental acuity dropped overnight in July?
The DNC was well aware of his declining mental health well before that, well before the primaries. And they hid it, and actively chose to hide it from the country, all while acting like all was completely fine. Then they waited for the debate, saw it went disastrously, and then decided it’d be best to run another candidate. Except, le gasp, there is not enough time to run a full primary! Oh no! What do we do?!
Eh, we’ll just run the VP, and we’ll run her on a centrist platform to try and win over Republicans. Yeah, yeah… That’ll do it.
Where was Bernie in that discussion? Or better yet, how did it go trying to get Bernie as the candidate in 2016? I distinctly remember the DNC acting completely above board the entire time, listening to their constituents, and running a progressive campaign tha-
Oh, wait, no, that’s all a lie. Historically, factually, it was a lie. The DNC has made it clear they will not, ever, support a progressive candidate. They showed us that in 2016, they showed us in 2020, and even when faced with fucking fascism, they refused to run a progressive platform in 2024.
This time, please join them instead of arguing against them. Saying ‘both sides’ isn’t helping.
Oh go fuck yourself. Playing the “Just four more years of centrism, we promise for realz this time, 100%” is not helping.
Speaking to people on here like they’re some misguided child who spilled a glass of milk is “not helping.”
Trying to distance the Democrats from the conservative party they are and continue to show themselves to be “isn’t helping.”
Fuck you.
You’re basically telling me the Democrat’s strategy is, “Do what we say or we’ll become more like the fascists.”
It’s not much different than all of you saying, “Do what we say or we will allow democracy to die. All because of a single issue in a country we didn’t know existed a year ago!”
Oh and also, “Do as we say, or the LGBTQ, and women in America will suffer! We don’t really give a shit about the hardships they’ll now face because you didn’t cave in and do shit we don’t even understand!”
It’s not much different than all of you saying
Wow… So the constituents of a political party wanting their concerns and issues addressed and taken seriously, otherwise they just won’t vote for a party that doesn’t represent them…
Is the same thing as the political party, who is supposed to represent the interests of their constituents, telling their constituents to tow the line or they’ll become more fascist.
Constituents: We want our concerns addressed and progress made for the working people.
Democrats: Support us unconditionally or we’ll just become more like the fascists to win their support, since our actions show winning is all that matters.
You: These are literally the same argument, but the constituents are the wronger ones.
All because of a single issue in a country we didn’t know existed a year ago!”
This right here is what I’ve been pointing out for the last week: Democrats lose because the party is condescending, dismissive, and insulting to anyone who dares voice criticism. So those 100,000 protest votes organized by Muslim and Arab Americans, the same amount that Harris is currently losing Michigan by, yeah, that’s just a single issue voter who hasn’t even heard of Palestine until a year ago.
How incredibly insulting to people you’re supposedly trying to win over while completely dismissing their concerns. Would you like to join the Palestinian speakers at the DNC on stage so you can insult them to their faces? Just kidding, the DNC chose to parade a bunch of Republicans across the stage rather than let a Palestinian speak.
We don’t really give a shit
The DNC to every progressive voter every voting day.
about the hardships they’ll now face because you didn’t cave in and do shit we don’t even understand!”
What shit were Democrat voters asking for that they didn’t understand? Seriously, I want you to explain that to me, because from my understanding:
- They wanted positive climate initiatives, and two weeks into the campaign Harris went pro-fracking despite initially being anti-fracking.
- They want the Palestinian genocide to stop, Biden has put no contingencies on weapons transfers to Israel, Harris signalled she only wanted to stop the war. Again, the DNC completely ignored the Arab/Muslim voices protesting this entire election
- They want progress that is actually meaningful and impactful, not these half-assed decades-late measures like the $15/hr minimum wage (should he $26/hr now with inflation), or only expanding Medicare for specific services rather than Medicare4All
- They want an economy that actually reflects their struggles instead of being fed the same metrics that only effect millionaires
- They wanted a candidate they could see positive change in, and Harris returned to the typical Status-Quo Democrat playbook that keeps costing them elections
Those don’t seem like things Americans don’t understand, maybe you and the Democratic leadership need to get off your high horses and maybe acknowledge that people want to see actionable change and not just election cycle after election cycle of excuses and empty promises.
And just a reminder, Democrats had decades to enshrine Roe into law, and didn’t do so the few opportunities they had because it was more useful as a campaign device.
Yeah… I’m not reading all of that. Enjoy your victory. You certainly earned it!
Shocker.
Nail on the head.
Well, you will find out what difference it makes.
Yep, we will.
Amazingly well said. This is on party Democrats. Don’t let people convince you otherwise.
under a Democrat administration.
Dude, just admit that you’re a Trump voter. The election is over and it doesn’t matter anymore anyway.
I voted Harris, and my state went to Harris. Voted Democrat down ballot.
Guess that makes me a Trump voter. 🤷♀️
Your usage of subtle Republican grammar like “Democrat” where “Democratic” would obviously be more correct gives you away.
Y’know what… I started writing a whole thing out, and you’re not worth it.
Fucking “Democrat” versus “Democratic,” for fuck’s sake, no wonder we lost.
Yeah, “we” lost. 🙄
You’re so edgy, oh my gawdddddddddddddd
Uh, I’d say “vote Democrat” here too. Democrat is the noun, Democratic is the adjectival.
In the sentence “Voted Democrat down ballot,” Democrat is acting as a noun. Now if they had said “Voted for Democrat candidates down ballot,” you’d have more of a point.
Democratic administration sounds more correct than Democrat administration unless you’re severely Fox News brained. I haven’t ever heard anyone calling it a “Republic administration” which would sound just as wrong (and the wrongness is absolutely intentional IMO).
Yes, Democratic Administration makes sense, because “Democratic” is acting as an adjective to “Administration”. In this example you do want to use Democratic.
But “Voted Democrat down ballot” still sounds fine to me.
Since the idea up top is “voters aren’t to blame” I’m out
Proving my point as to why Democrats can’t seem to win, keep winning people over to the party there, champ.
Yes you’re so smart. We should have done anything you say and also fuck Democrats because voters aren’t responsible for anything ever
The Democrats ran on an uninspiring platform, and then wondered why the voting base was uninspired.
And I didn’t realize “listen to your constituents” was the same as “do anything I say and also fuck you.”
Yes if only we had inspired America the right way we would’ve stopped being fascist because gEnOcIdE
Throws your tantrum all you want, the Dems didn’t get the votes they needed, and it’s their lackluster campaigning that lost them the election.
The voters don’t owe candidates shit, especially when they’re being promised four more years of Biden, but a pinch more progressive.
nuance won’t hurt you I promise
Lol yeah that’s what it is. Electing trump and then blaming Democrats is NuAnCe
Voters will get what they voted for, whether they intended it or not. It’s the bedrock fundamental of political reality. A party can meet them where they are, convince them to come over to the leadership position, or lose. Those are the options
Right, we should all robotically accept that people are garbage
They’re not all garbage. But they are selfish and short-sighted. Our garbage culture is the problem. Our worship of money and disdain for the poor.
It’s of the upmost importance that we don’t hold power to account and assure them they’ve done nothing wrong. They are powerful after all. What wrong could they have done?
Right?! My whole philosophy is why do more than one thing? That’s bad. What we need to do is scream into the void on lemmy about democrats and swat away any hint of voter responsibility. That’ll teach the voters the right lesson: they could never possibly have done no wrong no matter what!
I know. I figure they haven’t been listening about how bad they are this entire time, the solution is to do it harder and louder. BAD FASCISTS. ALL OF YOU. NOW VOTE FOR US.
Kind of like how talking shit every time the color blue is mentioned completely changed democrats platform! Fucking goddamned brilliant as fuck!
Agreed. You are so smart. I’m surprised everyone here hasn’t generated you in you genius insights. It’s kind of amazing. But I’m glad I was the first. Everyone else is so fucking stupid. I cant believe it’s EVERYONE ELSE WHOSE STUPID… And definitely not you. Definitely not.
No, YOU are the smart one! All we have to do is get mad at democrats and this time they will 100% reverse course! I mean the only other thing we need to do is suck the dicks of people voted for Trump!! Wait no I forgot, that violates the sacred “one thing is allowed to be done” law.
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It wasn’t the voters that once again generalized half the population negatively. It’s now 3/3 on comments doing that ending with a loss.
Is this English? The words are familiar but I literally cannot extract meaning from this.
Whether you have binders full of women, baskets of deplorables, or garbage, it ends badly for you.
pfft ok
Don’t give up, just don’t be nice to republicans. And make sure to harass the next administration for our rights. Fucking racist rapist criminals.
I am sure that if Trump has his way, you will no longer have rights to fight for. It comes to a point where you can no longer just fight the symptoms, you need to fight the disease. Americans just voted for the disease.
Good thing you have your guns, then right?
If I had a gun right now, I wouldn’t trust myself.
Guns are not the answer. Responsible people know when and how to use a gun. But the gun freaks in the USA are the irresponsible idiots that think guns work like in the movies. We have a ton of untreated mental illness in our country.
Oh, that’s literally why I wouldn’t trust myself and can’t legally buy a gun. I have depression, anxiety, and ADHD. I’m too afraid I’d have a bad day, like today, and blow my brains out and still live anyways.
And I’m medicated. I can’t imagine how people without their meds would feel.
I’ve taken my meds but I’m out of cannabis and straight up not having a good time right now
I stopped drinking 5 years ago. I quit smoking weed 4 months ago.
It’s… It’s really hard to not just go out and buy some weed to fill that void in my soul right now.
I think tomorrow, I’m gonna double my Adderall dose.
And when it comes down to action, the liberals are about as effective in pushing change as the DNC.
Hope you are ok, stay safe and seek help if necessary.
Some people aren’t American. Some people (like me) just live in countries that follow USAs footsteps when it comes to politics.
Now we get to see it play out. All the folks saying he was kidding about ______. Let’s see. Now we’ll see…
This guy’s literally going to bankrupt the country on purpose because it won’t hurt the billionaires
*it will give the billionaires the chance to buy everything up cheap
What rights do you really have when there is a Supreme Court that will allow them to be trampled?
I’m cutting out everyone in my life who voted Trump or 3rd party. This includes my parents, all of my siblings, and my in-laws. They don’t realize the damage they’ve done. I can’t even stand to look at them anymore, so I won’t.
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Well, good news I guess, with the way the climate is gonna go now you won’t be living long at all.
If pollution under Trump is as bad as he is promising the idea of hitting 5 degrees C by 2075 doesn’t seem that far fetched.
It’s 2024 so that’s 51 years from now. I’m 31. If I’m not dead by then I would be 82. So I could, in theory, live to see it.
Good news! The de-regulation and de-funding of FDA and USDA will probably kill you faster and more directly than climate change.
As a trans woman and a Jew there’s a ton of direct ways that I could be killed, but it’s really not worth worrying about them. =)
“Don’t worry about the future; or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubblegum.” ~Baz Lurhmann
But it might be worth preparing.
The fascists did post their entire game plan online.
To help with searching through 900 pages:
Better download and save this before they take it down and pretend they never wrote it.
Dictators do love revising history to entrench their rule.
As a fellow trans woman, I’d like to give you a giant hug. I made another post entirely about our situation. I hope you stay safe and happy.
Hooray!..??
Also…. No one is going to try and burn down the Capitol this time. So we’ve got that.
Though once Trump comes up with some new logo that may or not be a swastika and it becomes draped with that logo that may not be a good thing. Though I see him going more the Mussolini route and putting his face on shit
He already put’s his name on everything. 🙄
We’re going to get our shit rammed in by climate collapse. It was going to happen either way, but I am old enough that I was hoping to be able to delay it enough to run down the clock.
Many terrible things are coming, but my heart is aching for Ukraine this morning…
I could cry. I’m so disappointed in all of us.
I am crying.
I don’t have the energy to be angry anymore. I’m just sad.
Starting to seriosuly consider making a solar punk party. I wanna be the radical progressives GOP thinks dems are but I dk where to start.
Find and join a mutual aid organization. Food not bombs is a good entry point for research if not participation.
Someone mentioned that and I thought it was slogan or something. Thanks for clarifying!
Absolutely! There’s lots centered around the unhoused. There are also other orgs like Mutual Aid Disaster Relief (MADR) and some focused on immigration along the southern border.
But there’s all kinds, they’re all over, just not always easy to find.
Our deepest condolences from across the pond.
Looking around in my European neighborhood and even my own country, it seems we have the same fucking problem here
Will be nice to see, when Europe freezes because of climate change and we need to move to the then green Sahara, how Africans will handle us immigrants.
Probably they’ll do as nicely, as we do, and will let us drown on our way there, or put us into camps, to protect their own country.Seems cooperation and mutual help is the devil…
I hear Moldova is nice.
It’s appreciated.
Every day I look back at one day I had in 2016 when I felt like killing myself and wonder why I didn’t just fucking do it.
I’m sure in ten years, I’ll look back on this and… wish I had done it now.
Congratulations America! Corruption, greed and hate just won.
Remember to vote in all local elections. The more sensible people you get into office the more change you create. Look up all the candidates, even for things like education, water treatment, family court judges.
These are all offices that we vote (or not) into office.
When I went to look at who to vote for in the shitty midwest state I am from, (I am an expat. ) sometimes the choice wasn’t clear. Some had no party affiliation, but those who seek positions of power often move on to other positions of power. Starting at the bottom we must vote in good people.
So I looked up their campaign websites or facebook pages, and made my choice from there. Do I want the girl with little background in the subject who has republican affiliations supporting her campaign for the office?
Or maybe the guy who runs free name change clinics for people who need it and works at the local food bank.
The choice was clear to me.
I am sorry fellow Americans. This was an outcome I had greatly feared.
Don’t give up.
I’ve voted in every election in the last 24 years despite giving up hope after 2000.
It’s nice to see a sane comment that isn’t completely gloom and doom. Thank you for this small comfort friend.
It’s happening: Idiocracy (2006) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
I might be at fault. I unironically wear Crocs because they are cheap, durable, and easy to clean.
Idiocracy would be an improvement at this point.
Believe in people. All we have is each other. And we all need each other now.
Didn’t people vote for Trump?
Seems the people have abandoned us.We’re on our own.
Yeah, we all know people like this… People who should care, but they don’t. Most are older folks in my experience.
On the bright side, Trump is very old and unhealthy. I’m not sure he can make it another 4 years. His mind is already going, it’s very clear to anyone not drinking the Kool Aid.
The fascists are the minority of this country.
He won the popular vote…
There are over 340 million people in this country. 70 million people isn’t a majority. And not even all of those people are fascists.
If you vote for a fascist, you’re a fascist.
Also, if you fail to vote against a fascist… 😬
This. Fucking this. We can only win next time if we let them know now that they are terrible people who made terrible choices. That will definitely lead to victory.
Only 64 million people and still counting voted for Harris. This strategy would have us turn against everyone else in the US and allow the fascists to outnumber us by our own hands. It is a useless strategy. Organizing with everyone we can against fascists is how we win. We outnumber them.
Not everyone did so knowingly. There are people who did knowingly vote for fascists of course. But there are plenty of people who got brainwashed by Fox News. It’s not useful to create millions of enemies when we already outnumber the fascists.
Fox News brainwashed my Grandma and Mom. They’re both Jewish. My Grandmother didn’t live to see this. She was the kindest person I’ve ever met. She would never hurt anyone.
My Mom’s an asshole, but she’s still my Mom and I lover her despite the fact she is brainwashed and misgenders me because my peace of mind makes her insecure. You think the fascists are going to care that she voted for them? As far as the fascists are concerned, she’s one more person they get to kill.
“I didn’t think the leopards world eat my face”, cried person who voted for the Leopards Eating Faces Party
I have to agree here. My father was a very well educated man. He has parts that he designed and manufactured by himself in the Smithsonian Aeronautical Museum, as well as parts that he designed and manufactured in the Hubble.
In the end, the fall of this intelligent man was Fox News. It is a brain worm. I loved him dearly, but the combination of conspiracy and hatred consumed him in the end. The last time I saw him, he asked to see his son. I will never recover from this.
Yes, but how many are of voting age, though, and how many of those are eligible? 340 million includes everyone, including those who can’t.
161 million registered voters in 2024. ~140 million votes cast.
The worst case estimate has it at 11 million people are fascists in the US. This is from 2018, but it gives a good ball park number for today. edit: 2018 not 2016
https://www.vox.com/2018/8/10/17670992/study-white-americans-alt-right-racism-white-nationalists
The fascist dictator in waiting is literally leading the in the popular vote. Even if that changes in the coming weeks, it’s gonna be a very large minority…
70 million people isn’t a majority of 340 million people. And not all of the 70 million people are fascists.
If you didn’t vote against the fascist then i have bad news for you…
I voted for Kamala. Fascists don’t care who you voted for. They only care about skull measurements and skin color. They will happily deport or kill all the minorities who foolishly or knowingly voted them into power.
“You” as-in “a voter/someone”.
Not you as-in you specifically, obviously.You’re conflating assholes here.
Fascists absolutely care who you voted for. They put party (and then country) above everything else. The word you were looking for is racists. They care about skull sizes and skin color.
These groups are not mutually inclusive, but there is a whole lot of overlap.
This is emphatically true, however, the majority of this country is silent. They don’t vote.
This is how democracy dies, and this is how evil wins.
That’s why efforts to organize grassroots movements need to start now. While we still have the cover of our democracy for about the next two and half months. When happens next depends on our ability to convince people who don’t vote to care.
Belief can be a source of hope during dark times but the Nazis weren’t stopped with good intentions and a pat on the shoulder. They were fought back with blood, steel and a fuckton of bombs.
Defend yourself against fascists.
I am genuinely disgusted at how this could even happen like this. He got the popular vote? By 5 million?
Why don’t you guys start a revolution against first-past-the-post? Fascism has far less power that way.
We had ranked-choice-voting at the State level on the ballot here in Oregon and voters rejected it by about 60%.
Same in my state. I voted against the amendment that banned it but I actually didn’t fully realize it was about ranked choice voting until I checked results. I hate that shit. It makes me so angry.
Sounds about white.
I don’t know why you are getting down voted. It’s who beat them. White guys came out and voted it out.
I think both parties that have power right now are opposed to RCV because it makes their job harder - they would have to be For something rather than just Against they opponent
The parties themselves would dislike RCV, but the voting public should embrace it.
Came here to say this as well, and OR is a reliably liberal state.
Unfortunately only the calm and sane people are upset, and it’s harder to whip us into a full revolution.
The elites have been studying for decades. They now know exactly how far they can push us before we fight back. That’s why inequality is worse now than before the French revolution, but nothing has changed. They’ve learned how to prevent us from revolting.
If we are at the point of solution by revolution, I think our aims should be higher than just first past the post…
My state just banned ranked choice lol
Surely all of the revolutionaries online dissuading people from voting Harris will kick into gear and get everyone motivated to change the constitution, fix the electoral system, eliminate capitalism, and obtain gay space communism for all.
Most of us have been, and will continue to be, engaging in direct action in our day-to-day lives.
Yeah keep it up because it’s obviously going great 👍
It is for my community. Liberals being apathetic about the status quo isn’t my responsibility
Sounds great, where exactly is this thriving community? Grand Delusions, MI?
The left endlessly quibbling with each other with definitely not get us there or anywhere. Your beef is with the idiotic trump voters, not people further left than Kamala
My beef is with purported leftists online that did their damnedest to dissuade people from voting at all.
Better do it now, cause glorious leader Trump will mobilize the military to shut it down quick.
We have Tiananmen Square Massacre at home.Remind me again what style of democracy the Weimar Republic had?
I’ve never agreed with the professor more than I do now. At least he actually has the option!
