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I hate to say it, but now isnāt the only time itās a problem.
This whole āyou just need to practice more CBT skillsā has been bullshit for like twenty fucking years or more.
I can ācheck the factsā all I want, if the facts are that things are irreparably and totally fucked and that this irreparability is hurting me directly I canāt āhappy thoughtsā my fucking way out of it.
Iām really tired of being told āyou canāt change other people, so you need to work on yourselfā when other people are allowed to be giant assholes their whole lives who never have to put one ounce of work into themselves and itās me and everyone else who is a halfway decent person who has to spend their lives fucking working on ourselves.
The system is god damned broken and has been god damned broken when we practically reward the worst of us with never having to try to do better while telling the best of us that we just have to do better.
Iām really, really over it.
Overthrowing capitalism is a pretty effective coping mechanism from what I hear.
Isnt that almost impossible? I wonder how many lotteries you would have to win in a row to be as lucky as you would need to convince billions of people capitalism may be worse than another system and to do something about it
you dont have to convince people based on dry theory. revolution does not necessairily mean a momentary violent insurection that overthrows what was. a revolution can be the process in which you create the structures you wish to see in the future, in the here and now. you then convince people by showing them first hand that it works and that it benefits them.
here is a great video on how to construct the revolution. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9K6ISx8QEQ
it has a bit of a slow start, and feels academic but its very very insightful. absolute recomendation.
Big recommend on that video and Anarkās whole channel.
This is a short clip he put out recently that makes a really good case for building the new world by fixing todayās problems, which makes life better now, which is something people seem to miss.
Like weāre not just rolling the dice that what we do now might pay off for future generations. Weāre not just āplanting trees in whose shade we will never sitā, we are planting seeds we can reap soon, because we need to eat, so weāre solving that problem.
And satisfyingly, this brings us full-circle to addressing the point of the original post.
I think we just need a bunch of guillotines.
I think some of us could do with both. Too bad the only psych who spoke to the heart of trauma was private. O well
CBT was designed for people who had severe behavioral issues.
The idea that it should be done by everyone is because extracting profit by selling cookie cutter solutions is the perversion of capitalism.
What you need to realize though is that you can only affect so much. Mostly if you need help you should help yourself first. Then if youāre happy and capable, you need to help others. Not the other way around. So get with it and donāt hang yourself up on āshit is fuckedā. It is, but it has been worse and it also can get worse. But that doesnāt really matter for now, help yourself first if you need to.
Like ofc itās not wrong to also help others.
The situation is hopeless and has always been. But thatās not as bad as it sounds and it frees you and me from the burden of the world. Do what you can, thatās enough.
I can highly recommend this video for reflecting on hopeless thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJaE_BvLK6U
Iām not having hopeless thoughts.
Iām having issues with CBT being used as a way to teach people learned helplessness where āyou canāt affect other people.ā Because, actually, society in aggregate (often called governance) can totally influence, affect, and change other people. We seemingly have given up on holding people who break the social contract accountable for anything while forcing those who do uphold the social contract accountable for everything. Fascism is the end-stage manifestation of that.
In my experience, in practice, it does more to teach people they canāt affect change more than it teaches them they can. It teaches them to be helpless on purpose.
This isnāt what cbt is
Cbt is an extension of equanimity, learning ways to control your emotional response to things. You donāt deny your emotional response, but you moderate it
This is advantageous because whatās more effective? Dwelling in rumination and suffering? Or acknowledging that we are angry and frustrated and moving forward to something actionable when that is possible and moving on with our lives when it is not? This is where we get into more DBT skills and stuff like radical acceptance but itās similar
This is what happens with these things in the modern context though. They get displayed at surface value with pop psychology social media bullshit and perverted. Then stoicism becomes ājust deny your feelingsā by right wing dipshits who have never read meditations when it is also about allowing yourself to feel and express feelings but not letting them control you through a practice of reflection.
CBT is essentially just an update of philosophy like this and Buddhism for the modern context with more explicit guidance and some neurology thrown in.
āYou canāt affect other peopleā is incorrect as you say. While we do have to concede that other peopleās willingness to change their behavior and perspective is ultimately up to them we can still advocate and influence. At the same time we can recognize that this process can be draining and harmful to ourselves and at a certain point maybe we need to take a step back. You canāt save fix a house with a rotting foundation.
Bad implementation doesnāt make CBT bad.
Bad implementation doesnāt make CBT bad
Well see here is the thing, it does when it becomes a key rhetorical tool the ruling class uses to brutalize poor and working class en masse and doctors shrug and say with a resigned smile āwell that is politics, we help individuals with their health, nothing we can do about that!ā.
That doesnāt even make sense?
You are talking maybe about capitalism informing psychotherapy away from solution oriented therapies because they are too costly and impractical and that is fucked up but that has nothing to do with cbt?
Or maybe something else, clarify?
Just a heads up I wonāt be offering any back and forth here, too busy.
But for anyone reading, CBT is not what is being described here. CBT / DBT are effective and should still be explored as viable options.
It was a long time ago and only briefly, but I agree this does not sound at all like what I recall from a CBT session.
I donāt have any experience with CBT, isnāt it mostly for dealing with specific traumata?
Mostly if you need help you should help yourself first. Then if youāre happy and capable, you need to help others. Not the other way around
I think youāre not getting what theyāre saying. Of course you can only work on yourself, but therapy doesnāt exist in a vacuum and frequently youāre just learning coping mechanisms for the status quo. Which is frequently good, being able to cope with society and remain functional is good, but people often have coping as the goal instead of merely being a step.
This person wants to change the system so coping mechanisms arenāt necessary to deal with society
Of course you can only work on yourself, but therapy doesnāt exist in a vacuum and frequently youāre just learning coping mechanisms for the status quo.
I doubt this is true. This feels like something that I would have told myself before therapy so I wouldnāt have to deal with myself
I think you might be projecting a little.
Itās just not my experience.
There are many, many reasons to be upset about the state of the world, but the purpose of CBT is similar to the purpose of stoicism. It is not meant to teach someone how to interface with society, but with themselves. Managing oneās emotional state by managing their cognitive state. This is a valuable skill to have even if in the midst of the apocalypse.
Even if you can change other people, generally speaking you canāt do it right here right now, so CBT is best served to interrupt or redirect cyclical thought processes that canāt actually motivate someone toward any positive outcome.
Having the thought - āThis is fucked and Iām going to do X, Y, and Zā - is healthy.
Having the thought - āthis is fucked this is fucked this is fucked this is fucked this is fuckedā - on repeat in your head when you canāt currently do X, Y, or Z, is not. CBT is meant to help someone break out of the latter, not the former.
There are many, many reasons to be upset about the state of the world, but the purpose of CBT is similar to the purpose of stoicism. It is not meant to teach someone how to interface with society, but with themselves.
Nobody cares for the most part about the intended purpose at the end of the day, they care about the actual impact which is that CBT is a convenient framing to exclude the non-individualist reasons people are miserable.
CBT is a convenient framing to exclude the non-individualist reasons people are miserable.
The rest of my comment addresses this - again, this isnāt how CBT works. CBT does not say āif you constantly feel bad, itās your fault, not societyāsā.
Itās just a strategy to manage unproductive and unhealthy negative thoughts, not negative thoughts in general. Itās totally healthy to feel anger, grief, sadness, etc in response to all types of things. If someone is telling you otherwise, theyāre not performing CBT.
This is actually touching on a real new approach to mental healthcare, which is just accepting that ālife is shitā and youāre kinda on your own to find meaning in it, or get to the next high-point that makes it worth living.
We have to stop expecting things to be stable, normal and comfortable. We had a good, smooth run, things are going back to normal now.
Humanity having enough power that their mistakes can destroy the world isnāt normal. Our failure tolerances were calibrated in a world where the damage we did to nature was temporary. Thatās not true anymore; we either get our act together now or go extinct.
We aināt going āextinctā and people quite frankly need to realize that āextinctionā is an incredibly low bar to clear. Billions will die and millennia of suffering lay before us, but the human species will be a-ok, especially if our industrial civilizations collapse. Itās a fire thatāll burn itself out, and thus history will continue.
The human species isnāt people, but a term to describe our shared code; code that isnāt you or the people you love. We are more than just our long term machinery. If we only focus on the forest, we miss the well being of the trees. Iād rather all our bloodlines end and us live lives focused on ourselves, than have an eternity of worshipping constructs that force us to live for them.
The Earth maintains homeostasis. Past 2 degrees warming, the current homeostasis systems break down. We donāt know where the next homeostasis point is. Itās probably a lot worse. Itāll keep getting worse past the point we stop making it worse. Most of the species on earth will go extinct.
Most of the species on earth will go extinct again
FTFY
When life first boomed enough to trigger a multi million year long ice age, it bounced back and established a new homeostasis. The life that caused it did not go āextinct,ā instead evolving to not be the architects of its own demise. When homeostasis is broken, evolution uses mass death and heavy handed selection pressures to reestablish it.
Unless basically all large multicellular life goes extinct, humanity will continue. Industrial civilization will tear itself apart from environmentally triggered human conflict before it could ensure that.
Thereās no guarantee mammals will fill the new niches. Personally, I think weāre going to have dinosaurs again. They like hot weather.
ur a goof. Like i said, youāre missing the trees focused on the forest. It literally doesnāt matter if humans live or not bc your foolish behind is dead either way
Humanity having enough power that their mistakes can destroy the world isnāt normal.
As someone born in the cold war, I canāt relate. Itās always been this way as long as Iāve been alive, so if something has been a way as long as anyone can remember, I think itās pretty safe to call it ānormalā at least for our species. This is what we do, this is how we operate.
I really believe if we accepted that our human nature gives us a lot of very bad baggage and our entire conscious experience is often an illusion assembled by millions of years of evolution, and that we may never rise above our instincts, we actually might start making progress towards a more equitable future.
Kinda like when youāre an alcoholic or other kind of addict, if you finally accept that you have a problem, you learn eventually that you canāt trust yourself so you make measures ahead of time like hiding your wallet, disabling your credit card, etc. Itās wild that a lot of people consider very successful tactics like this to be a ācop outā and live in this delusion that we āshould be betterā and can somehow rise above our own natures. Like telling a fish it can fly if it really, really tries hard enough. Itās setting you up for failures and frustrations.
Shit man. This hits home way too hard.
Putting it this way kind of makes it sound like modern therapy has reinvented Buddhism.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change what I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
Excellent psychological advice in the form of prayer. The fact that life is shit is one of things ypu cannot change. The wisdom to know the difference is the real skill.
This is an entirely different approach than most people are used to. My advice from a couple of combat deployments is to cultivate a task oriented mindset. What does that mean? It means worrying about the task you are doing right now and nothing else. That doesnāt mean you never look at the bigger picture. But if youāre at dinner, then youāre at dinner and you enjoy that. You can check when the next protest is, after dinner. You take each day like this and before you know it weāll be voting Trump out of office.
Wow, so this is basically the technique I started when a close family member was dying of cancer.
āBut if youāre at dinner, then youāre at dinner and you enjoy thatā
I just want to add to this, give yourself permission to fully enjoy it and be happy in the moment. Donāt beat yourself up for feeling joy when you know others are still in crisis.
Make a list on paper or digital and let all the problems wait while you enjoy the moment. Itās okay to enjoy the moment.
before you know it weāll be voting Trump out of office.
No offense, but this is a weird comment. How are we going to vote him out of office? Are we just accepting that heās going to run for a third term? We canāt let him do that.
Next year are both senate and house elections. If we get blue 2/3ds in both chambers, we can pursue them to impeach Trump
There will be no āvoting maga out of officeā.
That ship has sailed.
Donāt comply in advance, donāt take it for granted that the next election wonāt happen. They want you to cancel that election, donāt do their work for them.
Oh people will fill out ballots and there will be election maps, donāt worry about that.
It was just a general sentiment but heās definitely going to try. And if his party supports him through all the protests then the best defense of Democracy is indeed going to be voting him out.
Only worry about what you can control.
Great advice.
Depressive realism sucksā¦ and the shittiest people are immune to it.
They are not immune. Being shitty is their way of dealing with the situation. Shittiness and depression is caused by the same corrupt society.
Hey guys this probably isnāt the right place, but Iām new to mental health issues. About two weeks ago I started having crippling anxiety attacks, mostly at or right after work. I do intl logistics for my company so Iāve had a pulse on all this bullshit from the getgo.
At the same time I started having blood pressure issues, and the combination has a vicious feedback loop of anxiety > elevated heart issues > anxiety etc.
My doctor gave me 30 Xanax (and a plethora of heart meds), Iāve looked up self help type stuff to help with the anxietyā¦ Mindfulness, breathing exercises, etc. Daily walks and exercise help the most but I feel so out of control of my emotions I donāt really know what to do anymore.
Should I talk to my GP and get on something long term? Therapist? Keep trying self help?
Iām 38 and otherwise healthy, no depression, slightly overweight but physically active and eating healthy. I stopped all my vices (nicotine, alcohol, most weed I still take edibles CBD) and I donāt know how to cope without being self destructive.
If anyone else is going through this and getting traction just let me know your experience I guess. I donāt know anyone irl as affected as me so I mainly just want validation Iām not alone and thereās a path forward.
I would definitely recommend trying therapy. Self help and meds will both help, but, for me, therapy made the biggest difference in the long run.
I donāt know anyone irl as affected as me so I mainly just want validation Iām not alone and thereās a path forward.
you can have that validation from me. spontaneous panic attacks or anxiety attacks can happen in the face of extreme danger, even if that danger would only be imaginary. in this case, it might be real, though, depending on your situation.
I assume you live in the US, since you didnāt say.
Whatās important is that you make a long-term plan (āwhere do you see yourself in 30 yearsā) thatās as realistic as possible and also at least acceptable. Every time the panic attacks start just focus on that vision (and on the path to get there). That will calm you down and give you a clearer mind. However, it is utterly important that you make such a plan. Without such a plan, i am deeply convinced people cannot live healthy, happy lives.
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SSRIs absolutely make you dependant. Doctors recommend not quitting them cold-turkey for a reason.
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A therapist probably wouldnāt hurt to give a try.
You could also take stock of sources of stress in your life, especially any that have emerged/increased in intensity in the last few months. At my previous job, my anxiety took a massive spike due to a crazy boss, layoffs hanging over everyoneās heads and an increasing workload. Even on anxiety meds, I was getting massive headaches on a daily basis and would spend hours on the verge of being ill from it. Once I got laid off, the anxiety went back down to my more manageable baseline, and the medication became a lot more effective for managing it.
Obviously, just entirely leaving the situation isnāt a great option for everyone (heck, I lost the best paid job I ever had in the process, which wasnāt great), but even if that isnāt feasible, it might give you some insight into how you might mitigate the issue.
Also, keep on going when treatments donāt work. Thereās no magic bullet here that works for everyone, so while it can be frustrating, keep trying things until you land on something that does the trick for you.
There are already some good suggestions in the other comments, I just want to add a point: Anxiety attacks can be a problem by themselves, but they may also be a symptom of something else. Insofar it is good to sort things out with a professional (therapist or psychologist) who can do the tests to determine what the root cause is.
Having said that, a personal addition: Mental and physical exhaustion can exacerbate mental health symptoms of all kinds and - to me - it sounds worth pointing out that you experience these anxiety attacks at or after work. So anything you can do to reduce the exhaustion may already help a little to alleviate symptoms. If you have a possibility to slow down a bit and ensure that you are well hydrated and that your blood sugar doesnāt drop too much (ie. make sure you arenāt famished) that could already help you to get a better grip on these anxiety attacks.
Either way: Stay strong, friend!
Hi. Long time therapy winner here. So first things first, you should absolutely talk to a therapist, not just take pills. The second thing you need to do is figure out your preferred grounding mechanism. This is usually going to involve one your senses, sight, touch, smell, hearing, taste, or breath. (Even though breath isnāt a traditional sense)
I know people who keep pine bark on a necklace, I know people who list 5 things of a particular color near them, and I know people who listen to a song. Usually breath is combined with whatever else youāre doing. Both as part of grounding and to cue your brain to pay attention to the sense youāre using.
A therapist can help you figure what works for you to get you back from panic attacks as quickly as possible. And you are absolutely not alone.
Ask about propranolol - itās a beta blocker.
It was prescribed to a family member for stage fright that was causing physical symptoms.
The nervousness is still there, but the control of the body came back.
Imagine trying to play drums or something and your hands shaking so bad you canāt hold the drumsticksā¦
If the xanax is messing with your thinking or energy, and you are medically cleared, a beta-blocker might help.
Thanks Iām actually on metropol! (sp?) Similar drug for similar effects I think
BetterHelp. Download it and talk to someone.
BetterHelp is not a good company.
Any help is better than struggling alone which is what these people are doing. As someone who actually uses the platform Iāve not had a bad experience and have had the same therapist.
Just because anecdotally, itās okay for you, doesnāt make the company or its practices good. Nor will I excuse them. They have also ruined therapy for many, many people, who wonāt go back or struggle to go to a therapist after getting ādumpedā by BetterHelp. Or worse. I will not and would not advocate BetterHelp for anyone first therapy experience.
This is exactly why Iām trying to limit news intake. I was kinda spiraling out with it all. Iāll still do stuff, show up and whatever, but man. This regime is AWFUL for my mental health.
And like for good reason, I know that Iām right to be scared of whatās happening but I gotta mediate this.
Yeah, I had a realization after the election that I was basically consuming news as entertainment in place of other things I could be reading or doing. Iām voting, Iām attending protests, knowing more isnāt going to change anything. Itāll just make me feel worse.
Yeah, Iām struggling so hard to just limit my knowledge. Does it really make a difference to me personally if I miss one of the fucked up things Trump does? If youāre already radicalized, it doesnāt really matter if heās done 20 things wrong or 50. Thereās no further room to sway your opinion and no further actions you can take. Itās just beating your mental health into the ground for no benefit.
But God damn is hard to convince the algorithms you donāt want to see that shit anymore. You truly canāt even do the simplest thing online without it showing up.
Not everyone has the luxury of being able to not pay attention; I sure donāt.
Some of us need to know if we need to leave and with what level of urgency.
Some of us will find out if weāve been fired from our jobs through the news (federal employees) before weāre even told by our bosses.
Some of us may need to choose our words and public persona more carefully as more and more groups are targeted for their beliefs, opinions, and identities.
The psychological analogy here still counts. If you canāt recognise your emotions, thereās little to do about it. Worse, if you donāt recognise your emotions they might break out in unpredictable places and ways.
Being anxious and depressed is directly related to your awareness of the world around you. Itās not okay to be okay.
Sure, but now what? You donāt have the power to change the world. So what do you do? You either develop a mind like a rock which sounds like dying on the inside to me or you actually just end it, right?
Like I want to find other solutions to this, but these are the only logical ones I can come up with.Try to find and enjoy the little things in life and try not to dwell all the time on things you canāt affect at the moment.
You do have the power to change the world when you stop individualizing your suffering or try to make it magically disappear by changing your perspective and start connecting your suffering to the suffering of others to build genuine community, power and resiliency.
Notice I never said āthere is no use being negative all the timeā as a lazy plattitude.
What if the dead plants are the friends we made along the way.
dead plants should be the reactionaries we meet along the way
Everyone is a furry, jeez
(I am a furry ugh)
Iād rather see furries than fascists.
Heyo yee. We rise up.
One of my coworkers is a furry. Heās the only god dammed person on the team holding the project together.
His code is deep magic though, so itās a double edged sword.
Ugh I donāt wanna toot my own horn (but I will)
When Iām working from home, Iām legitimately in bed for 80+% of the time rotting and watching dumb shit.
On an average day, I quantifiably do half the work of my department. We have seven people. Two of them do nothing, one does almost nothing, and two others do good work.
I tend to aim for 50% of the day doing actual shit, as long as I have some good progress to show for the day. The rest of it is resting and keeping up with house chores.
In person was such a shit show. I was only working for 50% anyways, and also had chores once I got home. So it was a lose lose situation for both me and my employer.
Not looking forward to the RTO theyāre inevitably going to do.
I feel this. Working from home now but even when in the office spent a staggering amount of time justā¦ doing nothing. Spent multiple days in the office just watching old episodes of The Computer Chronicles on youtube.
Recently praised as one of the most productive/useful members of my team and also thanked for taking so much of my time to help other teams.
Not a furry though.
this is exactly why therapists seem to be total nutjobs in my opinion, they donāt have actual solutions that work for any case where the symptoms are justified by the climate other than āleave the climate thatās justifying itā.
Why I like my therapist so much. She understands wholly what I mean, and she helps me to remember we can only control what we can. I can control my plants, in this case.
On a tangent just last week I, well, I was telling her a video game I play I was having difficulty with the wolves. Everytime Iād come across them, Iād get anxiety and attacked, die, respawn, and when Iād go to get my inventory, Iād be shaking so bad I couldnt even use the mouse to gather it. The boarās were easy, the bears made me afraid a bit, but the wolves weāre having me panic.
She asked, why do you think the wolves have you panic? The most generic, easy response, right? I shrugged it off and said probably my trauma (I have diagnosed c-ptsd). Meeting ended.
But for three days, I couldnāt get the question out of my head. Why were the wolves freaking me out so badly? I wanted to defeat the wolves. Then I remembered, 14 years ago I was bit by a dog. Aggressively. He lunged for my neck, I blocked him with my arm where he snagged me. Another person put the dog in a head lock so he couldnāt shake his head, the dog didnāt let go until I, well, instinct kicked in I guess and I played dead, I exhaled and went limp. He let go, I went to the hospital and was lucky, he nearly missed my tendon. I had forgottenā¦ I knowā¦ I know, but it all made sense. The next time I came aross the wolves, I didnt lose my inventory.
So simple, so effective. You must find the right therapist and sometimes itās difficult.
Depends on the type of therapist approach. If itās the type that is about CBT and thinking you need to change it wonāt work just like it doesnāt work on neurodivergents. If itās internal family systems or ACT it can absolutely help because it acknowledges those issues and validates whatās happening without trying to change you. You learn skills to accept it and ride it out vs suppressing and forcing change.
I have been in this headspace for 5-10 years as I could see this moment of collapse coming, I have lost most of my friends or a great distance has opened up between me and them where more and more whenever I am vulnerable and share how I feel I get some form of āit is useless being negative, you have to be happy and let it go!ā.
Wish all those people didnāt take so long to have a mature realistic outlook, but whatever, their old self is being obliterated by the new status quo, so in a very real way those people are already gone or at most a lingering ugly remnant of the past.
Maybe it helps to get a roommate, both with the plants and the anxiety?
Wait, is the plant me? Dudeā¦
