Imagine if someone punched you over and over again in the face and said, “Sorry, I’ll stop.” You’d be happy that they’d stopped, but you wouldn’t like them or forget, especially because their friend is still currently punching you in the face.
UK, France, Canada and Australia are all in the ICC: this mean both Hamas and Netanyahu are wanted criminals if any of these put feet on the ground of these nations.
Netanyahu would be reasonably safe in China, Russia, USA and Hungary tho.
Y’know what would be the best way to get rid of Hamas?
Provide aid and policing. Help establish long-term stability. Prove that you’re on the same side as the people. Treat them as humans and not cannon fodder, unaffected casualties, or shields.
Basically, the opposite of what Israel is doing.
This is what boggles my mind when the right attacks anyone who is Pro-Palestine. Almost none are in favor of Hamas - they just recognize that most Palestinians are innocent people who just want to live in peace. We don’t have to kill hundreds of thousands of Palestinians or create a massive diaspora.
The war feels a lot as if Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were on opposing sides. Yeah, I’d want Mussolini to win, but why did it have to be him?
Hamas needs to be eliminated in order for long term peace to be established but we all know Israel isn’t going to stop there.
It is RATHER FUCKING LATE. Sure, let’s put together anti-poaching laws for the White Rhino after it’s already extinct in the wild! Now, let’s find other ways to do precisely nothing of any meaningful value while being able to claim moral superiority and that “at least we eventually did something”. Now that the complete obliteration of any meaningful civilisation in the vast majority of occupied Palestine has been completed, and after god-knows-how-many thousands have died of starvation or just being shot like rabid dogs while trying to take the mangled bodies of their children to a hospital, or daring to try to pick up food. Recognising a state which is in exile is precisely as useful to actual Palestinian people as just watching and shrugging your shoulders. It’s just an attempt at performative retroactive unfucking.
What complaining? It’s a political cartoon. It’s not saying they shouldn’t have done something late. It’s just a reminder that they didn’t do anything earlier.
In case my point was unclear, this is no longer “them doing the right thing”. What, precisely, do you believe is the benefit of this action to the Palestinian people? This is a great way of drumming up public support without actually having to do anything. Is there actually any commitment here to action? Is there actually any real cost to doing this? Have these countries ceased funding Israel? Have they stepped up aid? Are they even acknowledging that it is a genocide?
Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t think I am. This is nothing but a publicity stunt, and until it’s backed up by real action, I refuse to perceive this as “doing the right thing”. This is nothing but a bunch of bullies who’ve been kicking some kid, and now that one of the bullies has clearly done permanent damage, they’re all saying “hey bro, it’s just a joke, bro, are you okay, bro?” Not even stopping the other two bullies who are still actively curb-stomping the kid. No. I don’t see this as “the right thing”.
You are making an argument from ignorance.
First of all, this is something Palestine has wanted for many decades. So finally doing it is absolutely something the Palestinians want.
What, precisely, do you believe is the benefit of this action to the Palestinian people
It marks that the occupation of Palestine by Israel is illegal, making new settlements are illegal.
In short it basically defines almost everything Israel does as illegal and unacceptable by every nation that recognize a Palestinian state.
This is a clear message to Israel that they do NOT have the support of those countries, and their actions are regarded as illegal under international law.
Most likely there will be follow ups to this, that legally depended on this recognition to begin with.
It is also i signal to other countries, that helping Israel oppressing and committing war crimes in Palestine is not acceptable under international law.
As someone who is under the godforsaken Nazi regime of MAGA, I have rapidly come to terms with the fact that “illegal” things are only illegal if there is a force willing to enforce the law being broken. Is there such a force? I have heard nothing of it. Please suggest who, exactly, you think is going to actually enforce sanction and punishments for this “illegality”. If these declarations do, indeed, have the force of international law behind them, and represent a commitment by these countries to enforce these wondrous and miraculous laws they’ve been actively ignoring up until this point, then I shall immediately cede the point.
As far as “argument from ignorance” is concerned, I would appreciate some elaboration. Saying “Talk is cheap” is not an argument from ignorance.
You are actually doing it again. The argument from ignorance is that just because you don’t see (are ignorant about) the advantage of this, you claim there is no advantage, when in fact there are clear advantages.
With regard to enforcement that is usually a mix of individual countries and the international community, possibly decided in FN, much like we’ve seen with Iran.
You are living in a lawless country, and USA is not an ally in this regard anymore, but many other countries are actually trying to maintain and uphold international law.
Trump might even get in on it it too, if he thinks it helps his image.
Personally I consider USA a lost cause now, and I have little interest in their policies that mostly consist of shooting themselves in the foot, and let China become the de facto international leader, as USA is stepping down and even sabotaging their former allies on their way down.
I understand why you are pessimistic, I would be too if I lived in USA.
I am not saying “there can be no advantage”. At every turn, I was asking you to explain the advantage which, let’s be clear, you have been attempting to do in good faith. I just want to understand more about whether this international law is actually enforceable in any meaningful time frame. Saying “I don’t see how this helps them in any meaningful way. Do you have some explanation that shows that it does?” is not an argument from ignorance, it is literally asking to be proven wrong. I am desperately trying to see literally anything other than a calculated move of realpolitik with the sole aim of getting their citizens to stop speaking out against their complicity in genocide.
You’re so right, because the “positive reinforcement” of “let’s make up for doing nothing about the Holocaust by letting Zionists do a bit of colonialist mass murder as a treat and recognising their state” has gone just so well these last eighty years. </s>
If recognising a government in exile is the best you can do in the face of an active genocide that YOU HELPED FUND, then NO, better to do nothing and JUST. STOP. DOING. THE. GENOCIDE.
That’s because you are oversimplifying things. Yes, late is bad. Yes, better late than never. Yes, views have changed over time. Yes,many politicians are cynical fuckfaces. All of that is all true. The artist is not choosing just one thing, and neither should you.
Yep and it still is the right step in the right direction. You didn’t expect someone to come in Hollywood Style and solve everything before bed time, did you?
You can see the water underneath their hands is red as if blood is being washed off. To me that indicates the message of the cartoon is this is how you start to clean your hands. Note they still aren’t clean, but it’s a start
They’ve recognised it and that’s it. No behaviour has changed as far as I know. I’m pretty sure we (Canada) are still selling weapons to Israel. What does it matter if we officially recognise Palestine as a country if we are still sending weapons to destroy it?
Yes, that seems to be the point. Remember last year when the Palestine “supporters” were constantly spamming that the best way to end the genocide would be to let Trump be elected? A lot of the people who’ve latched onto the Palestinian cause don’t actually want to help anyone, they just want an excuse to hurt even more people.
Tha is a pretty shallow take. Every government for the last decades has supported the subjugation of the Palestinians. While the Democrats are not as open about their complicity and might even have shown some minor support at this point in the genocide i very much doubt that the U.S. would agree under any government to steps like sanctions.
Blaming the election on Palestine supporters is a really american centric view of the whole conflict but that is to be expected from americans.
Maybe stop blaming and instead take ANY action you can against the fascist apartheid regime that is Israel.
I really don’t see the point this is trying to make. Like, would it be better if they didn’t recognize it at all?
Imagine if someone punched you over and over again in the face and said, “Sorry, I’ll stop.” You’d be happy that they’d stopped, but you wouldn’t like them or forget, especially because their friend is still currently punching you in the face.
UK, France, Canada and Australia are all in the ICC: this mean both Hamas and Netanyahu are wanted criminals if any of these put feet on the ground of these nations.
Netanyahu would be reasonably safe in China, Russia, USA and Hungary tho.
This, except their friend is actually shooting your starving children, then bombing the hospital they’re being kept in.
Y’know what would be the best way to get rid of Hamas?
Provide aid and policing. Help establish long-term stability. Prove that you’re on the same side as the people. Treat them as humans and not cannon fodder, unaffected casualties, or shields.
Basically, the opposite of what Israel is doing.
This is what boggles my mind when the right attacks anyone who is Pro-Palestine. Almost none are in favor of Hamas - they just recognize that most Palestinians are innocent people who just want to live in peace. We don’t have to kill hundreds of thousands of Palestinians or create a massive diaspora.
The war feels a lot as if Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were on opposing sides. Yeah, I’d want Mussolini to win, but why did it have to be him?
Hamas needs to be eliminated in order for long term peace to be established but we all know Israel isn’t going to stop there.
But between stopping or not I’d definitely prefer stopping
It is RATHER FUCKING LATE. Sure, let’s put together anti-poaching laws for the White Rhino after it’s already extinct in the wild! Now, let’s find other ways to do precisely nothing of any meaningful value while being able to claim moral superiority and that “at least we eventually did something”. Now that the complete obliteration of any meaningful civilisation in the vast majority of occupied Palestine has been completed, and after god-knows-how-many thousands have died of starvation or just being shot like rabid dogs while trying to take the mangled bodies of their children to a hospital, or daring to try to pick up food. Recognising a state which is in exile is precisely as useful to actual Palestinian people as just watching and shrugging your shoulders. It’s just an attempt at performative retroactive unfucking.
We all know it’s fucking late, but it makes little sense to complain when someone is finally doing the right thing.
Better late than never.
What complaining? It’s a political cartoon. It’s not saying they shouldn’t have done something late. It’s just a reminder that they didn’t do anything earlier.
In case my point was unclear, this is no longer “them doing the right thing”. What, precisely, do you believe is the benefit of this action to the Palestinian people? This is a great way of drumming up public support without actually having to do anything. Is there actually any commitment here to action? Is there actually any real cost to doing this? Have these countries ceased funding Israel? Have they stepped up aid? Are they even acknowledging that it is a genocide?
Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t think I am. This is nothing but a publicity stunt, and until it’s backed up by real action, I refuse to perceive this as “doing the right thing”. This is nothing but a bunch of bullies who’ve been kicking some kid, and now that one of the bullies has clearly done permanent damage, they’re all saying “hey bro, it’s just a joke, bro, are you okay, bro?” Not even stopping the other two bullies who are still actively curb-stomping the kid. No. I don’t see this as “the right thing”.
You are making an argument from ignorance.
First of all, this is something Palestine has wanted for many decades. So finally doing it is absolutely something the Palestinians want.
It marks that the occupation of Palestine by Israel is illegal, making new settlements are illegal.
In short it basically defines almost everything Israel does as illegal and unacceptable by every nation that recognize a Palestinian state.
This is a clear message to Israel that they do NOT have the support of those countries, and their actions are regarded as illegal under international law.
Most likely there will be follow ups to this, that legally depended on this recognition to begin with.
It is also i signal to other countries, that helping Israel oppressing and committing war crimes in Palestine is not acceptable under international law.
Don’t let perfect stand in the way of progress.
As someone who is under the godforsaken Nazi regime of MAGA, I have rapidly come to terms with the fact that “illegal” things are only illegal if there is a force willing to enforce the law being broken. Is there such a force? I have heard nothing of it. Please suggest who, exactly, you think is going to actually enforce sanction and punishments for this “illegality”. If these declarations do, indeed, have the force of international law behind them, and represent a commitment by these countries to enforce these wondrous and miraculous laws they’ve been actively ignoring up until this point, then I shall immediately cede the point.
As far as “argument from ignorance” is concerned, I would appreciate some elaboration. Saying “Talk is cheap” is not an argument from ignorance.
You are actually doing it again. The argument from ignorance is that just because you don’t see (are ignorant about) the advantage of this, you claim there is no advantage, when in fact there are clear advantages.
With regard to enforcement that is usually a mix of individual countries and the international community, possibly decided in FN, much like we’ve seen with Iran.
You are living in a lawless country, and USA is not an ally in this regard anymore, but many other countries are actually trying to maintain and uphold international law.
Trump might even get in on it it too, if he thinks it helps his image.
Personally I consider USA a lost cause now, and I have little interest in their policies that mostly consist of shooting themselves in the foot, and let China become the de facto international leader, as USA is stepping down and even sabotaging their former allies on their way down.
I understand why you are pessimistic, I would be too if I lived in USA.
I am not saying “there can be no advantage”. At every turn, I was asking you to explain the advantage which, let’s be clear, you have been attempting to do in good faith. I just want to understand more about whether this international law is actually enforceable in any meaningful time frame. Saying “I don’t see how this helps them in any meaningful way. Do you have some explanation that shows that it does?” is not an argument from ignorance, it is literally asking to be proven wrong. I am desperately trying to see literally anything other than a calculated move of realpolitik with the sole aim of getting their citizens to stop speaking out against their complicity in genocide.
Thaaaaat’s the negative reinforcement that’ll ensure they never change their stance next time.
That is the goal, right?
You’re so right, because the “positive reinforcement” of “let’s make up for doing nothing about the Holocaust by letting Zionists do a bit of colonialist mass murder as a treat and recognising their state” has gone just so well these last eighty years. </s>
If recognising a government in exile is the best you can do in the face of an active genocide that YOU HELPED FUND, then NO, better to do nothing and JUST. STOP. DOING. THE. GENOCIDE.
It’s saying that recognizing Palestine is how you begin to wash the blood off.
I’m pretty sure its saying they’re only recognizing Palesestine to make themselves look better.
The blood is coming off in the stream of water. Their hands are getting cleaner.
That’s because you are oversimplifying things. Yes, late is bad. Yes, better late than never. Yes, views have changed over time. Yes,many politicians are cynical fuckfaces. All of that is all true. The artist is not choosing just one thing, and neither should you.
That recognition does not remove culpability from past choices.
Yep and it still is the right step in the right direction. You didn’t expect someone to come in Hollywood Style and solve everything before bed time, did you?
You’ve got to admit, it would have certainly made for a refreshing change.
You can see the water underneath their hands is red as if blood is being washed off. To me that indicates the message of the cartoon is this is how you start to clean your hands. Note they still aren’t clean, but it’s a start
They’ve recognised it and that’s it. No behaviour has changed as far as I know. I’m pretty sure we (Canada) are still selling weapons to Israel. What does it matter if we officially recognise Palestine as a country if we are still sending weapons to destroy it?
Yes, that seems to be the point. Remember last year when the Palestine “supporters” were constantly spamming that the best way to end the genocide would be to let Trump be elected? A lot of the people who’ve latched onto the Palestinian cause don’t actually want to help anyone, they just want an excuse to hurt even more people.
Tha is a pretty shallow take. Every government for the last decades has supported the subjugation of the Palestinians. While the Democrats are not as open about their complicity and might even have shown some minor support at this point in the genocide i very much doubt that the U.S. would agree under any government to steps like sanctions.
Blaming the election on Palestine supporters is a really american centric view of the whole conflict but that is to be expected from americans.
Maybe stop blaming and instead take ANY action you can against the fascist apartheid regime that is Israel.