So at this point, the leaders of both major political wings of MAGA have openly done the fascist salute.
Maga America needs to be denazified.
MAGA Americans need to cease to exist.
You and what army?
Don’t need an army to punch a pussy-ass fascist. Fuck off Nazi.
Gonna need to do a lot more than just punching pussy-ass fascists. Why don’t you go ahead and peacefully occupy a sidewalk that Nazi oligarchs never walk on, or maybe do an interpretive dance while you’re at it. If you think the rise of fascism can be stopped with punching pussy-ass fascists then you’re clearly not taking the situation seriously enough. Where’s your gun?
The National Guard, hopefully.
The real headline should be “CPAC audience cheers Bannon’s Nazi salute”, because they totally did, and it leaves no doubt that CPAC is full of Nazis.
There were cheers, but I think I also detected some shouts of anger. I’m not going to write off an entire audience.
It’s almost like the capitalist media has completely normalized and apologized for fascism.
And even when reporting on it they link to the neo-Nazi site X for the video.
I don’t think this one is nearly as obvious as Musk’s, and I feel like blowing something like this up makes us look bad and will only further them doing sarcastic, vague gestures “as a joke” until it gets normalized more.
My favorite song by the Dead Kennedys is “Nazi Punks Will Go Away on Their Own So Don’t Make a Big Deal About It”
“Apparent”
Chickenshit Nazi enablers.
Atleast it’s actually being called that now
I shall now remind the world that the USA didn’t care all that much about nazis in WW2 until it got attacked by Japan in Pearl Harbor and felt the need to react.
Bullshit. We supported Europe similarly to how we’ve been supporting Ukraine.
We didn’t have boots on the ground, but we did everything short of that. It’s why Pearl Harbor happened.
We turned away Jewish refugees, and we also had our own Nazi political party. Support for the Nazis during WW2 was at a high point among the population before the US entered the war. We did not as a nation support Europe, and in fact there were large protests across the US against FDR supporting the allies by bypassing Congress. Speaking of Congress, they specifically created and expanded the Neutrality Act to prevent FDR from providing aid to the allies.
So no, there was much less help from Congress for supporting the allies than there is for supporting Ukraine, and it wasn’t a popular move by FDR to boot.
We did not as a nation
You sure like to cherry pick what counts for “as a nation”. The fact is we sent significant supplies and support to Europe throughout the war.
I can’t find a source for percentage support for the Nazis. While it existed, it seems to be pretty minor. Even the infamous Madison Square Garden rally has more to the story.
It bears mentioning that while there were 20,000 enthusiastic American Nazis inside the venue, there were also thousands of protesters outside. The anti-Nazi contingent included everyone from veterans to housewives to members of the Socialist Workers Party. The New York Times reported that the streets of midtown Manhattan were packed, and at one point the orchestra from a Broadway musical near Madison Square Garden performed a rendition of “The Star-Spangled Banner” for the protesters. A mysterious crusader even set up a loudspeaker in a rooming house near the scene and blasted a denunciation of the Nazis out the window: “Be American, Stay at Home.” The New York Police Department had deployed a record number of 1,700 officers around Madison Square Garden, enough “to stop a revolution,” the police commissioner said.
Let me make sure I got your argument correct before we continue. You’re arguing that the country that didn’t even desegregate their schools a hundred years ago had “pretty minor” support for white supremacists even before they were literally forced by the military under a progressive president to allow black people to attend their schools, because only 20,000 people attended one nazi rally in the time before the internet or interstate system, when word spread by mouth or by local newspaper.
That’s some straight up white historical revisionism.
If you were actually interested in the truth, which I very highly doubt you are, because Americans tend to suppress any criticism of their historical racism, I would suggest you read Hitler’s American Friends: The Third Reich’s Supporters in the United States by Bradley Hart. The American history with and love of nazism is glossed over or often ignored, because the whole idea of the grand stand against fascism is the greatest story we tell ourselves. It’s mostly propaganda, and people like you go along with it because it makes you uncomfortable to address the fact that the US would have willingly joined the nazis if it weren’t for the president standing in the way of things.
People like Bradley Hart write books like that as a cautionary tale. People like you just abuse any chance you get to shit on America.
There’s better unethical stuff in South America. You should spend your efforts there.
“Better unethical stuff” than nazism? I see, so you’re that sort of person.
And you’re the sort of person to call me a Nazi at the slightest provocation.
What about the role of IBM in the logistics of the Reich, from military logistics to railroad and camp management for the Holocaust?
I agree with your first point, but it’s not the main reason why US was attacked - even if it was 100% isolationist, it would have been attacked anyway, because Japan can’t really fulfill its imperial ambitions, if they have the US pacific fleet in its backside.
Japanese also thought the Americans would give them better terms of surrender than the British or thr Soviets.
A lot of the US supported nazi Germany directly as well. They were supporting both the allies and the nazis for a while.
America supported the axis and allies in ww2
No, American companies continued to sell goods to the Axis until it was no longer illegal. The US federal government never supported the axis
Even after setting embargo’s the us didn’t enforce private company’s from exporting/importing. And before the embargo’s the us were sending arms. The one of the countries America didn’t work with was Russia and is partly why the us worked with the Nazis. They saw it as a means to an end in the goal to defeat communism.
Russia did not exist then.
No you didn’t, you let your competitors destroy eachother and joined in at the end to reap the rewards.
Maybe it is like ukraine. Let others do the fighting for you.
And you know nothing about Pearl Harbor.
Everyone knows you desperately wanted war with Japan.
The oil embargo was almost a declaration of war.
But you wanted Japan to do it.
You deliberate placed the fleet in a remote place as bait, totaly indefensible.
Everyone with brain knew this at the time but their objections were dismissed.I’m not saying America was pro-nazi (though some were). I’m saying the US could’ve fought Japan and just continued to fund the Soviets. The red army was more than up to the task of sweeping through every country held by the Nazis after they broke them in the East.
They didn’t though, they prioritized victory in Europe ahead of victory in the Pacific. That is because they were racing against the communists to liberate as much as Europe as they could. They were already planning for the next war.
Remember how the justification for nuking civilians in Japan was so American soldiers didn’t have to give their lives taking the island? So why sacrifice American lives in Europe if you know the USSR is months away from totally steamrolling Nazi Germany? There has to be a geopolitical reason.
The Nazis may not get broken in the East without the Americans and the Allies in the West.
We have plenty of things to be Anti-American about right now without trying to cherry pick, and oddly frame WWII.
Hell, we only got involved with the Nazis because Hitler declared war on the US after the US declared war on Japan for pearl harbor.
I would go as far to say the reason they did d-day wasn’t to defeat the nazis, but to liberate as much of western europe as they could before the soviets set up social republics in france and the netherlands.
Then you go so far that you’re off the map.
No, the US stayed out of the war until after the Nazis had been defeated at Stalingrad and were getting pushed out of Russia. The reason the US didn’t enter the war earlier was 1. Forces in the US wanted Europe destroyed since all it would take is a push to over industrialize our economy and we could emerge as the worlds leading superpower (which happened) and 2. The powerful forces in the US were really hoping the Nazis would defeat the Soviets.
The other poster is more correct, we entered the war to clean up the western front and prevent the USSR from taking the credit for “winning”, and prevent expansion or even diplomatic leverage.
Completely ahistorical garbage. If the US wanted the Nazis to beat the Soviets, then why did they send billions in equipment and supplies even before Stalingrad.
Its not that they wanted the Nazis, but the US will choose a dumptruck of fascism over a thimblefull of socialism every time. The US wasn’t officially aligned with Germany, there were forces in the US that wanted to see them defeated, and protect allies like GB. However many powerful american businesses were closely aligned with the nazis anc they wield a lot of political clout. IBM’s second biggest customer was Nazi Germany. So don’t act like there was zero conflict of interest. But as I said the incentives weren’t pro-nazi, they were pro-US superpower and anti soviet. There certainly were powerful forces within the US that explicitly wanted fascism here though, the Ultra podcast covers this well in 2 seasons.
Your version of history where there are good guys and bad guys that clearly demarcate the winners and losers in a completely justified in every way war, is the ahistorical garbo. People just can’t fathom that the US would act underhandedly to give itself an advantage despite every second of this country’s foul imperialist history. As if these things are decided by your personal morals rather than by politics and power. God what naive idealism.
In the war room, when it looks like the worlds greatest enemy are going to defeat your greatest enemy, should you intervene on behalf of your greatest enemy? No you wait and see how things shake out. Its always surprising when people just refuse to think about political economy and instead believe the “stars and stripes forever, super patriot, the US is the greatest country in the world” delusion.
You are stitching together facts to create a false larger narrative and sound like a either a 15 year old who has just discovered the world isn’t black and white, or an Alex Jones enjoyer .
If you don’t have anything to contribute to the discussion, then you could just not comment.
When my facts contradict your narrative im a 15 year old antisemitic conspiracy theorist, meanwhile, you throw away all those facts to protect your narrative in the name of truth. Its a little disingenuous.
I admit I’m coming in hot and heavy with a particular view and i believe these dynamicx are real and important to understand. but these were just a few particularly nasty threads in a long, complex and difficult war. Treating these topics fairly and honestly is the work of books, stacks of volumes even, and unlike you, I won’t say that my view, which merely corroborates the perspective of the other commenter, is the comprehensive final word on WW2 history. That’s all I was doing was corroborating, giving some facts to support their perspective which you arrogantly dismissed without a squeaky fart of evidence. Again, disingenuous.
I assure you that I’m not 15 (multiply that by 3) nor a casual internet theorist, so dont bother trying to rattle me the way you might be able to with someone from one of those groups of people. In any case, whatever box you have to put me in to make yourself feel better than me is fine, but it doesn’t make you right or even like a good faith participant in this discussion. I hope you get a lot of mileage out of that little insult, I hope it makes you feel special and very smart. From my limited experience, those feelings of fake superiority might be one of the only things you have going for you. But feel free to prove me wrong with something like an intelligent comment. It doesn’t take much to impress me, being a dumb, childish, hateful oaf that you want to paint me as.
If no D-Day then the Soviets just liberate Europe all on their own. Why risk so many American lives unless you’re preparing for the next war?
… Oh, well. If the Soviets had it all handled then why indeed lol. You’re an uneducated nut spouting conspiracies as stupid as those put out by Putinists.
Apparent? Shut the fuck up.
In this case I think the point is to be on the nose about how fucking ridiculous it is - just from this article:
Steve Bannon made a gesture that is identical to a Nazi salute
Bannon made the gesture — extending his arm, palm down, fingers straight, at an upward angle away from his chest, which is also what Nazi salutes look like
the gesture was also identical to one made by billionaire Elon Musk
extended his arm straight out, palm down, fingers straight, at an upward angle away from his chest. Which, whatever the billionaire’s intention, just happens to be precisely how a Nazi salute is performed.
Musk repeated the gesture. Here’s how that looked. <pic of Musk doing a Nazi salute>
I also wouldn’t be surprised if the DoJ would be specifically ordered to look at this case. When you’re challenging power, it makes sense to cross your Ts and dot your Is.
Throwing in the word “apparent” is cowardly, but it’s also a lot cheaper than being sued for libel by a fucking billionaire.
Nah. Getting sued for libel is what these outlets should be absolutely proud to have sent their way. That’s literally a news story in itself. It would also means he’d actually have to defend it instead of posting Nazi puns on Twitter.
So at what point of doing something does it actually become the thing that it was?
Seems pretty obvious to me.
From a legal point of view it hasn’t been tried in a court of law, which is why words like “apparently” and “allegedly” are used.
By that logic, it would impossible to report on literally anything.
Yes. It’s impossible to report objectively on capitalists with enough control to sue. This has been shown again and again.
Yet here they are, reporting on it.
Badly.
Less than perfectly, due to the constraints of the system they are forced to operate within.*
You are, of course, free to start up a news agency that fulfills every ideal you hold close, just know that you’ll have to have a lot of funding if you’re going to be spending as much time in court defending against libel lawsuits as you spend on reporting.
Yeah. They’re cowards because they don’t want to lose any money saying the truth.
Oxford’s top definition for Apparent is “clearly visible or understood; obvious”
And the second (which is how they are using it) is “seeming real or true, but not necessarily so”.
I think the third one is “brother, i really don’t wanna get sued for that shit.” Pretty sure they are using that one.
Having read the article, that doesn’t seem to be the case. The undertones of the writing seem to be “There have been some attempts to deny that these are Nazi salutes (and not from the people making the gestures), but plausible deniability is rapidly running out and it definitely looks exactly like a Nazi salute”.
Dodging shackles of the new Ministry of Truth
The space karen one was blatantly apparent, this was a pretty half assed attempt. Like he is too much of a bitch to put his contemptible fascist ideology on full display.
Getting upset when journalists explicitly flag their interpretations is pretty fucked up and fragile.
“Interpreting” a sieg heil is pretty fucked up and complicit.
They came to the same fucking interpretation as you did, but that’s still not good enough. “Apparently” they don’t just have to oppose nazis, they have to participate in your daily Two Minutes Of Hate. Clearly differentiating between objective observation and the inferences drawn from those objective observations IS A GOOD THING. So fucking fragile.
Arm up, folks. Nazis don’t go away peacefully.
Nah I think peacefully occupying a sidewalk that oligarchs never walk on or care about even maintaining is the best idea, we should keep doing that for 40 more years, that’ll work!
Can’t you just change your avatar to something?
I honestly think the feud with Elon is fueled by jealousy to be Trumps Nazi.
He wants to be in control not Musk.
I mean, Bannon started this whole thing. He was pushed out of the inner circle but he was the one with the vision back in 2016.
Bannon is a visionary and he had the right idea. He just didn’t have the ability to execute. Trump took the ideas from Bannon and found new allies who have the ability to execute. Musk (and Thiel) were more than happy to jump on board
Edit: just in case it’s not clear I’m not endorsing his views. I am firmly anti-Nazi
Most people have muscle memory of like normal wave or maybe a clenched fist pump for “fight fight fight” right? It’s not supposed to be difficult to avoid nazi saluting. Like I’ve never ALMOST sieg heil’d, you know? fuck sakes
look there was no plausible deniability when Elon did it. He pretended like he was a weirdo autist the night of with his weird head bobbing and his exaggerated gestures to try and give plausible deniability. but the Nazi salute was putting the toe in the water. feeling the room
it seems that the wannabe Nazis felt like the water was warm enough and they’re gonna start descending the staircase into the pool
After Mush did it, I wanted to give my bro my heart, but I literally couldn’t bring myself to do it. No way this is accidents.
I’d like to go back to a simpler time. A time when nazis got shot in the fucking face.
You can help return to that time today!
It’s always incredible to see how so many people say they’re willing to do something is contrasted with the close to zero people who do it.
I’m 100% sure if you remove the momentum of the system your statement will become a lie.
You mean remove the bread and circus? Definitely. But that’s not going to happen.
Otherwise I don’t know what you’re getting at.
By momentum I mean all these services and people that were keeping everything running who are now fired.
Join your local SRA or PSL. We need more comrades. Us Socialist have the top score for killing Nazis and it’s not even fucking close.
Edit: Socialist Rifle Association. Party for Socialism and Liberation.
Judge for yourselves … pretty blatant Nazi salute if I’ve ever seen one. Short and quick but it was a plainly obvious gesture.
1930s German Nazis would have laughed at it for being so pitiful and weak but it was there from what I saw.
https://www.youtube.com/live/0BN-62AQT4Q?t=29801s
If the linked time doesn’t work … scroll through to the end of his 15 minute speech at 8:16:32
I can’t even think of a way that this could be given some veil of innocence either. The “my heart goes out to you” thing was always bullshit, but it was an attempt at plausible deniability. I don’t think even that could be done here
Yeah well my heart just went out when I slay nazis too it was an oops because I was just making my heart go out
It’s just an involuntary hand movement, like when someone reaches for glasses they are already wearing, or reach out for a phone that’s not in the pocket. He got the habit from all the times he does the Nazi salute behind closed doors. /s (but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually true)
the nod, like yeah I did that, right after.
Like a weak handshake. The softest Nazi ever.
Short and quick, followed by a smile and a nod to what I assume was approval from the audience.
You’d think it would be easy to avoid doing this, but watch as the MAGA scum come out of the woodwork to rush to the defense of another guy who totally didn’t mean it, honest.
In times past, anyone doing anything like that around the president would have put the president on the fast track to impeachment.
Today, this will just slide, and we’ll have another piece of outrageous news tomorrow that nobody will be outraged about for more than 10 minutes. Different values today I guess…
Impeachment in the US seems to be meaningless too, though
It’s because impeachment is a partisan process. If the Republicans had an ounce of integrity (or even self-preservation) they would have joined the Democrats in voting to convict when Trump was impeached multiple times previously.
The second time was their easiest out. He wasn’t President, he had just lost an election, most of the country was disgusted with his antics post-election or at least just tired with it all.
They could’ve kneecapped him right then and barred him from running again. He would have left Washington a pariah. Most Republians hated the man, and this was their chance to shoot the rabid dog, but they were afraid of getting primaried over it. Which itself is ridiculous because most of the GOP senators were 3-5 years from their next primary.
That was when the GOP was fully-captured.
The goal of fox news post nixon was to prevent anything similar to what happened to nixon as a result of watergate. That and the fact that wall street robber barons were mot punished for the business plot fascist coup attempt against fdr and then the son and grandson of that coup attempt’s primary architect were both sitting presidents and now America has been obviously fascist to anyone paying attention the last 40-50 years now they are so emboldened they don’t even try and hide it.
Dude. Punctuation.
It really is. It does fucking nothing.
It’s not so much values as it is a lack of power in the working class. These things can be done because the greater population has no power or influence. Since their is no organization to resist it the mass of the population falls into two areas of “cope”. The crowd that knows it’s fucked up and has no one to organize against it. And the crowd that knows it’s fucked up but “no one is doing anything” so they find a place to normalize or deny it. It’s not “really” a Nazi salute.
You may call this “values”. But I’d say it’s more about how well the ruling class has controlled and passified the population.
Also, when half the country is worried about putting food on the table or paying rent. They really don’t have time to give a fuck. Material conditions really shape what we might perceive as a “lack of values”.
Let me guess the excuse: he also has autism and autistic people just can’t help doing Nazi salutes all the time.
You know how you keep seeing autistic people give Nazi salutes?
It’s true, it was programmed into us by our creator Hans Asperger.
Weird how Elon has never claimed to be officially diagnosed to be ASD, but has described himself as having Asperger’s Syndrome before, isn’t it?
Very weird indeed.
I’m autistic and I can’t stop nazi saluting it’s scaring my kids neighbors and friends send help
“damn vaccines… All Fauci’s fault” - RFK Jr?
who is saying that?!
It’s an excuse that people are using for elmo’s heiling…
I all invite them to come to germany and do it :)
Germany is literally right on the edge of their own fascist issues right now. The symbolism may not be as directly 1to1 as America. But the outcomes are building up to be the same. Germans learned all the wrong lessons from their past and now the “never again” seems to be “well, again, but only to Muslims this time. We promise it stops there”
How’s that song go? “Tell them that the Nazis never really went away”. They weren’t kidding.
it’s worse than that, we shift all the guilt about antisemitism and nazism onto muslims, so that they’re perceived as the actual nazis and we’re innocent happy fellows who are bestest of friends with The Jews™ who just happen to all support and live in israel and no other jewish opinion or existence is allowed or acknowledged. the palestinian genocide really is a denazification, israel is just cleaning up little hitler babies with daily bomb and drone strikes.
I’m really struggling with the idea that humanity doesn’t deserve to survive. Its just mind blowing how stupid and disgusting people can be.
I don’t struggle with it at all. I accepted it decades ago. I suppose it makes the end of the world easier to deal with.
Humanity can be incredible, but humans sucks.
Funny, I believe the exact opposite propositions. A human has the potential to be brilliant and beautiful but humanity will never be as intelligent as an ant colony.
“A person is smart. People are dumb, dangerous, panicky animals…” -Agent K, MIB
i think the only way we can survive and create a successful egalitarian society is by having some sort of overlord ruling over us
so for example let’s say we write a constitution and then have a super-powered generalized artificial intelligence machine force us to follow the rules
or aliens. we could become pets for alients https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgPeP_pfjp4
There’s an AfD poster doing the rounds right now where the adults are doing the fascist salute.
What i mean with that is:
They come over, do the Hitlergruß, then get arrested and heavily fined because its highly illegal to do that in germany
Couple years ago I was drinking in Prague in the middle of the night and came across these German teenagers doing it and they told me “it’s great we are allowed to do this in Czech Republic” lol
I have pics of them doing it, absolutely wild
It’s actually banned in Czech Republic as well. Not surprising, considering some of the atrocities of the Nazis there
They’d have diplomatic immunity and the AfD would cheer.
If you were going to kick them out of the country for doing it, we’ll, they’ve already done it. You can kick them out preemptively.
Bannon has diplomatic immunity? He’s just some loser.
I’m not sure this one would have landed him in a prison cell (or citation or whatever they do).
As long as they don’t protest against genocide, they’re safe in germany.
