itās absolutely not politicians, itās the people.
This is like being presented with āwould you rather stick a nail in your arm, or in your eyeā and then doing nothing, only to have the nail get stuck in your eye by a third party.
The fault lies squarely with people who make assinine claims without any evidence, pretending they hold some deep wisdom when they really donāt know shit.
You are the evidence to support my claim, Poopster, in case that wasnāt obvious.
The only obligation to voting is your right to exercise it how you choose, full stop. It is not anyoneās ājobā to vote any specific way, this is the entitlement Democratic voters need to get over.
Yeah, Trump won because he convinced his base he was worth voting for. Harris couldnāt convince her base that he was a threat and that she was worth voting for.
She did try to win over Republican voters instead of her own, though. 94% of them voted Republican anyway, just like they did in 2020.
But Iām sure youāll tell me that was the voterās fault too. š
Edit: I brought up mandatory voting because it could be legislated that way, just as voting day could be made a federal holiday. And laws could be passed to mandate paid time off to allow essential workers to vote on voting day if absentee/early voting are unavailable. Or what if you were automatically registered to vote on your 18th birthday, none of this registering nonsense.
Damn, those are all great policy ideas that the Democrats could run on, or even implement, since they have been outwardly more supportive of people voting. Funny that they havenāt done that in the last couple decadesā¦
ā¦ Itās almost like the Dems donāt want that roughly 60% of people who donāt vote to start voting. Wonder why that isā¦
Fact of the matter is, if you donāt exercise your vote, and the result is worse, you exercised your vote badly. There is no difference between not voting, and having a bad outcome, and voting (for the wrong thing) and having a bad outcome. They are the same.
It is not anyoneās ājobā to vote any specific way, this is the entitlement Democratic voters need to get over.
i donāt disagree, and in fact, i agree, this is an entitlement that democrats need to get over, because if they did get over it, we would start fucking winning. The republicans are literally an abusive partner right now, and weāre just sitting here like āwell maybe if i close my eyes he wonāt hit meā and then being really fucking confused when it doesnāt do anything.
As a party, weāre literally cannibalizing ourselves over this issue. Itās not that deep, just vote for the least bad candidate, and get over it, go do local political lobbying, go vote in primaries, go vote in local elections, whatever the fuck, nobody cares, just do something
She did try to win over Republican voters instead of her own, though. 94% of them voted Republican anyway, just like they did in 2020.
she didnāt try to win over republican voters, she tried to win over moderate voters. I would say it worked to some degree. But obviously since we got like a 50% turnout, itās really hard to say if anything worked, and frankly, i think the democratic institution is failing right now. If we donāt get up and do something about it in the next 4 years, the republicans are going to run uncontested.
itās funny that the image says moderate republicans, and while thatās partially true, itās also pushing for support from the moderate left. Which is the vast majority of the party. She was also appealing to the moderate left (most of the dem party)
Damn, those are all great policy ideas that the Democrats could run on, or even implement, since they have been outwardly more supportive of people voting. Funny that they havenāt done that in the last couple decadesā¦
maybe they should, but in defense of them, running on voting policy, in a federal election is pretty fucking silly. You canāt really do much about it on a federal level.
Itās almost like the Dems donāt want that roughly 60% of people who donāt vote to start voting. Wonder why that isā¦
so they can lose repeatedly to the republican party? ok.
Fact of the matter is, if you donāt exercise your vote, and the result is worse, you exercised your vote badly.
I disagree, itās their right to cast (or not cast) their vote how they choose. If someone chose not to vote for Harris because they didnāt want even their small part in the Genocide, I donāt blame the voter for having a conscience. I blame the Democrats for not giving them a different option, especially considering their opponent.
I donāt understand why the voters have to always sacrifice their concerns and wants, but the party doesnāt. All Harris had to do was not basically mirror Bidenās policy on Israel, and she couldnāt do it. Thatās a failure on the Democrats, not the voters.
Itās not that deep, just vote for the least bad candidate, and get over it
This is what a lot of the voting base is tired of hearing. Through their inaction (whether itās justified or not), Democrats have made the majority of voters apathetic. I say this because the voters arenāt often represented in the candidates forced on them (Hillary and Bernie, pushing Biden in 2020, trying to push Biden through for 2024 and hiding his declining mental health).
So every election season, almost nothing has improved for the average person, but weāre inundated with requests for money from the same party that wonāt listen to its constituents. You canāt just spend decades telling people āvote and get over it,ā and expect them to keep giving a fuck.
i think the democratic institution is failing right now
We definitely agree on this part.
She was also appealing to the moderate left (most of the dem party)
And how did that pan out for her? The Democrats keep trying this centrist-moderate policy, and they keep losing, and instead of trying to go left, they just go further right.
Like I said, 60% of eligible voters donāt vote, and you canāt win with just the majority of your base (since you call them most of the dem party, and I donāt disagree), so why are you trying to win over moderates instead of rally new support? Why not give a voice to those who may not be voting because they donāt feel represented? (Not saying everyone who doesnāt vote does so because of this reason, just picked one at random).
maybe they should, but in defense of them, running on voting policy, in a federal election is pretty fucking silly. You canāt really do much about it on a federal level.
I meant more why havenāt they done this at any point during the last few decades? But even then, why not now? How is promising Americans another paid federal holiday a bad idea during a campaign?
Voting rights have been a major topic over the last few years, where were her policies on enshrining the right to vote and stop these voter purges weāve been seeing?
And all of this is to say, it can just be lip service. Trump lies constantly, and he does it to hurt people, so why canāt Democrats lie to try to help people? No, instead they just try to return to the status quo at the first opportunity they can, while convincing their voters that being centrist is the only way to be a progressive.
so they can lose repeatedly to the republican party? ok.
Cause theyāre two sides of the same coin, boss. They have the same donors, they go to the same bars and clubs and restaurants and country clubs together. And miraculously, every time Democrats get power, we hold the status quo, and then the Republicans shove us right, and the Dems hold until weāre shifted right again.
The Dems never seem to make any meaningful attempt to move us forward, and if they do, itās handicapped because they have to compromise and work across the aisle.
Trump/Republicans werenāt wrong when they said peopleās perception of reality is more important than actual reality. People keep saying as a country, quantifiably, we are doing better under Biden than we did under Trump.
But polls and articles leading up to the election showed Americans did not feel better off, they did not feel like the economy was working for them, etc.
And Democrats ignored it and kept trying to shove their figures and metrics down our throat, completely disregarding how people felt, and just expecting them to get over it.
I disagree, itās their right to cast (or not cast) their vote how they choose. If someone chose not to vote for Harris because they didnāt want even their small part in the Genocide, I donāt blame the voter for having a conscience. I blame the Democrats for not giving them a different option, especially considering their opponent.
youāre wrong though. Just because you didnāt actively vote for the candidate, doesnāt mean you didnāt do anything. In some capacity, you would have rathered the chance that donald trump win, then you help harris to win. Which means by proxy, as with harris, you are complicit in āthe genocideā or whatever other talking point you can fill into that blank (it works with everything, might as well generalize it lmao)
Letās say, there are three people, one of them is me, the other is you, and the third is just some person. I have a knife, i tell you very explicitly, that i am going to stab this person. And instead of you doing anything, because you donāt know who this person is, and have no reason to care about them, you just close your eyes and plug your ears until after iāve stabbed them already. There is no moral framework to which you can ascribe yourself as a āneutrally uninvolved partyā in this incident.
I donāt understand why the voters have to always sacrifice their concerns and wants, but the party doesnāt. All Harris had to do was not basically mirror Bidenās policy on Israel, and she couldnāt do it. Thatās a failure on the Democrats, not the voters.
because thatās how the system works? If you have small concerns you go to small local elections, and vote in primaries, the two things that actually influence this (nobody votes in the primary btw) the federal government is highly irrelevant to you in most scenarios. You really shouldnāt give a fuck about most of what itās doing, just that it generally aligns with your principles. And if itās not perfect, as we say in the field of engineering āitās better barely functional, than non existentā
This is what a lot of the voting base is tired of hearing. Through their inaction (whether itās justified or not), Democrats have made the majority of voters apathetic.
well, then iām sorry, but you kinda deserve whatever is going to happen to you as a party demographic.
So every election season, almost nothing has improved for the average person
yeah, itās the federal government, what are they going to do? Tuck you in at night before you go to sleep? Theyāre not your mother. If theyāre functioning as intended you shouldnāt even be thinking about them.
And how did that pan out for her? The Democrats keep trying this centrist-moderate policy, and they keep losing, and instead of trying to go left, they just go further right.
i think it worked out well, if you look at the rhetoric online, and the rally turnouts, itās pretty clear it went pretty well onsite. The problem was getting a general voter turnout from the useless mess that is the dem voter demographic.
so why are you trying to win over moderates instead of rally new support?
very few people are politically engaged to the point where they care about anything outside of just āi votedā they know almost nothing, so broadening your potential voter base has a massive implication on potential turnout. The problem i think, is that the dem party has an entitlement of being better than everybody else, and it ends up clubbing itself over the head in turnout over this.
But even then, why not now? How is promising Americans another paid federal holiday a bad idea during a campaign?
could be any number of reasons, as for the holiday, the answer is obvious. āREALLY THE BEST YOU DO IS A FUCKING HOLIDAY?ā would be like, half the media. and republicans would immediately call it communism. The second you promise anything, you let down 60% of the voter base because they all have a really specific vision for what they want, when we should all be coalescing in agreement on a broad political ideology, and worry about the actual politics later in office. (or earlier in the chain)
Voting rights have been a major topic over the last few years, where were her policies on enshrining the right to vote and stop these voter purges weāve been seeing?
specifically, itās a states rights issue, the federal government has very little control over voting jurisdiction in states, if arizona wants to make it illegal for black people to vote, they can, but the AZ supreme court would likely rule it unconstitutional, and it would most likely be challenged in the federal supreme court later on.
Realistically the most we can do federally is mail in voting, but even that requires cooperation, and maybe a federal voter ID to appease republicans and provide a secondary form of federal identification that isnāt an SSN. If you want to do ANYTHING in regards to voting on a state level, it pretty much has to be done at a state level.
so why canāt Democrats lie to try to help people?
because weāre unconscionably good faith. We need to stop being like this, or at the very least, draw lines in the sand, and fucking destroy the conservative media empire (probably with another media empire, just without all of the disinfo propaganda) Iāve said it before, and iāll say it again, the dem party is the victim in a physically abusive relationship with the republican party. We need to recognize this and fucking leave. (although we canāt really leave, we have to win instead)
The Dems never seem to make any meaningful attempt to move us forward, and if they do, itās handicapped because they have to compromise and work across the aisle.
to be clear, biden has done a lot of really good things in his admin, the IRA and infra bill notably. Tons of funding for things like the CHIPS act, and a handful of other things, numerous border bills that wouldāve been productive, but were killed by republicans. Itās not āaesthetic legislationā but itās pretty damn good legislative regardless. The biden admin will probably go down as one of the most productive admins in US history.
they did not feel like the economy was working for them, etc.
this is literally just recency bias (and inconvenient timing) thereās nothing you can do about this, especially when the republicans are literally running a propaganda machine akin to the nazi regime. The best option iāve come up with thus far is that we just really need to commit to winning as a party. We have to do what we can to be as productive as possible, and that means leaving behind everything tangentially relevant (for a little bit at least)
And Democrats ignored it and kept trying to shove their figures and metrics down our throat, completely disregarding how people felt, and just expecting them to get over it.
the problem is that the figures are accurate, and what the people feel is literally delusional. People feel as if their 401ks were higher under trump, than they are now under biden.
This is literally impossible, it cannot happen (unless you withdraw money) what are we supposed to do against schizophrenic āvibes and feelsā There is nothing we can do, facts and figures are rooted in reality, at least. Thatās the one thing we have right now.
You know there was 14 million less people this time l than last. You donāt know if they were Democrats. Literally low information, high opinion person. And we know what happens to them.
(Hell, you donāt even know that 14 million didnāt show because we donāt have the final vote total.)
Trump also has less votes than last time and almost all votes are tallied at this point, there isnāt millions left. Voters in general didnāt show up as much for this election.
Aged like fine wine my dude, ~14mill less dems showed up to vote
And the fault for that lies squarely with Democrat politicians.
itās absolutely not politicians, itās the people.
This is like being presented with āwould you rather stick a nail in your arm, or in your eyeā and then doing nothing, only to have the nail get stuck in your eye by a third party.
Removed by mod
The fault lies squarely with people who make assinine claims without any evidence, pretending they hold some deep wisdom when they really donāt know shit.
You are the evidence to support my claim, Poopster, in case that wasnāt obvious.
Whatās a politicians job during the campaign?
To convince people that theyāre worth electing.
If they could understand that you need to appeal to voters to win an election, theyād be very upset.
I love this, you made me smile on a very shit day, so thank you for that.
If I donāt laugh, I cry. I have to make comedy out of a shit situation or Iāll wonder how far I need to jump.
and itās the peoples job to vote for the best candidateā¦
Weird that donald trump WON the election, thatās real curious.
When did voting become mandatory?
The only obligation to voting is your right to exercise it how you choose, full stop. It is not anyoneās ājobā to vote any specific way, this is the entitlement Democratic voters need to get over.
Yeah, Trump won because he convinced his base he was worth voting for. Harris couldnāt convince her base that he was a threat and that she was worth voting for.
She did try to win over Republican voters instead of her own, though. 94% of them voted Republican anyway, just like they did in 2020.
But Iām sure youāll tell me that was the voterās fault too. š
Edit: I brought up mandatory voting because it could be legislated that way, just as voting day could be made a federal holiday. And laws could be passed to mandate paid time off to allow essential workers to vote on voting day if absentee/early voting are unavailable. Or what if you were automatically registered to vote on your 18th birthday, none of this registering nonsense.
Damn, those are all great policy ideas that the Democrats could run on, or even implement, since they have been outwardly more supportive of people voting. Funny that they havenāt done that in the last couple decadesā¦
ā¦ Itās almost like the Dems donāt want that roughly 60% of people who donāt vote to start voting. Wonder why that isā¦
i didnāt say it did.
Fact of the matter is, if you donāt exercise your vote, and the result is worse, you exercised your vote badly. There is no difference between not voting, and having a bad outcome, and voting (for the wrong thing) and having a bad outcome. They are the same.
i donāt disagree, and in fact, i agree, this is an entitlement that democrats need to get over, because if they did get over it, we would start fucking winning. The republicans are literally an abusive partner right now, and weāre just sitting here like āwell maybe if i close my eyes he wonāt hit meā and then being really fucking confused when it doesnāt do anything.
As a party, weāre literally cannibalizing ourselves over this issue. Itās not that deep, just vote for the least bad candidate, and get over it, go do local political lobbying, go vote in primaries, go vote in local elections, whatever the fuck, nobody cares, just do something
she didnāt try to win over republican voters, she tried to win over moderate voters. I would say it worked to some degree. But obviously since we got like a 50% turnout, itās really hard to say if anything worked, and frankly, i think the democratic institution is failing right now. If we donāt get up and do something about it in the next 4 years, the republicans are going to run uncontested.
itās funny that the image says moderate republicans, and while thatās partially true, itās also pushing for support from the moderate left. Which is the vast majority of the party. She was also appealing to the moderate left (most of the dem party)
maybe they should, but in defense of them, running on voting policy, in a federal election is pretty fucking silly. You canāt really do much about it on a federal level.
so they can lose repeatedly to the republican party? ok.
I disagree, itās their right to cast (or not cast) their vote how they choose. If someone chose not to vote for Harris because they didnāt want even their small part in the Genocide, I donāt blame the voter for having a conscience. I blame the Democrats for not giving them a different option, especially considering their opponent.
I donāt understand why the voters have to always sacrifice their concerns and wants, but the party doesnāt. All Harris had to do was not basically mirror Bidenās policy on Israel, and she couldnāt do it. Thatās a failure on the Democrats, not the voters.
This is what a lot of the voting base is tired of hearing. Through their inaction (whether itās justified or not), Democrats have made the majority of voters apathetic. I say this because the voters arenāt often represented in the candidates forced on them (Hillary and Bernie, pushing Biden in 2020, trying to push Biden through for 2024 and hiding his declining mental health).
So every election season, almost nothing has improved for the average person, but weāre inundated with requests for money from the same party that wonāt listen to its constituents. You canāt just spend decades telling people āvote and get over it,ā and expect them to keep giving a fuck.
We definitely agree on this part.
And how did that pan out for her? The Democrats keep trying this centrist-moderate policy, and they keep losing, and instead of trying to go left, they just go further right.
Like I said, 60% of eligible voters donāt vote, and you canāt win with just the majority of your base (since you call them most of the dem party, and I donāt disagree), so why are you trying to win over moderates instead of rally new support? Why not give a voice to those who may not be voting because they donāt feel represented? (Not saying everyone who doesnāt vote does so because of this reason, just picked one at random).
I meant more why havenāt they done this at any point during the last few decades? But even then, why not now? How is promising Americans another paid federal holiday a bad idea during a campaign?
Voting rights have been a major topic over the last few years, where were her policies on enshrining the right to vote and stop these voter purges weāve been seeing?
And all of this is to say, it can just be lip service. Trump lies constantly, and he does it to hurt people, so why canāt Democrats lie to try to help people? No, instead they just try to return to the status quo at the first opportunity they can, while convincing their voters that being centrist is the only way to be a progressive.
Cause theyāre two sides of the same coin, boss. They have the same donors, they go to the same bars and clubs and restaurants and country clubs together. And miraculously, every time Democrats get power, we hold the status quo, and then the Republicans shove us right, and the Dems hold until weāre shifted right again.
The Dems never seem to make any meaningful attempt to move us forward, and if they do, itās handicapped because they have to compromise and work across the aisle.
Trump/Republicans werenāt wrong when they said peopleās perception of reality is more important than actual reality. People keep saying as a country, quantifiably, we are doing better under Biden than we did under Trump.
But polls and articles leading up to the election showed Americans did not feel better off, they did not feel like the economy was working for them, etc.
And Democrats ignored it and kept trying to shove their figures and metrics down our throat, completely disregarding how people felt, and just expecting them to get over it.
youāre wrong though. Just because you didnāt actively vote for the candidate, doesnāt mean you didnāt do anything. In some capacity, you would have rathered the chance that donald trump win, then you help harris to win. Which means by proxy, as with harris, you are complicit in āthe genocideā or whatever other talking point you can fill into that blank (it works with everything, might as well generalize it lmao)
Letās say, there are three people, one of them is me, the other is you, and the third is just some person. I have a knife, i tell you very explicitly, that i am going to stab this person. And instead of you doing anything, because you donāt know who this person is, and have no reason to care about them, you just close your eyes and plug your ears until after iāve stabbed them already. There is no moral framework to which you can ascribe yourself as a āneutrally uninvolved partyā in this incident.
because thatās how the system works? If you have small concerns you go to small local elections, and vote in primaries, the two things that actually influence this (nobody votes in the primary btw) the federal government is highly irrelevant to you in most scenarios. You really shouldnāt give a fuck about most of what itās doing, just that it generally aligns with your principles. And if itās not perfect, as we say in the field of engineering āitās better barely functional, than non existentā
well, then iām sorry, but you kinda deserve whatever is going to happen to you as a party demographic.
yeah, itās the federal government, what are they going to do? Tuck you in at night before you go to sleep? Theyāre not your mother. If theyāre functioning as intended you shouldnāt even be thinking about them.
i think it worked out well, if you look at the rhetoric online, and the rally turnouts, itās pretty clear it went pretty well onsite. The problem was getting a general voter turnout from the useless mess that is the dem voter demographic.
very few people are politically engaged to the point where they care about anything outside of just āi votedā they know almost nothing, so broadening your potential voter base has a massive implication on potential turnout. The problem i think, is that the dem party has an entitlement of being better than everybody else, and it ends up clubbing itself over the head in turnout over this.
could be any number of reasons, as for the holiday, the answer is obvious. āREALLY THE BEST YOU DO IS A FUCKING HOLIDAY?ā would be like, half the media. and republicans would immediately call it communism. The second you promise anything, you let down 60% of the voter base because they all have a really specific vision for what they want, when we should all be coalescing in agreement on a broad political ideology, and worry about the actual politics later in office. (or earlier in the chain)
specifically, itās a states rights issue, the federal government has very little control over voting jurisdiction in states, if arizona wants to make it illegal for black people to vote, they can, but the AZ supreme court would likely rule it unconstitutional, and it would most likely be challenged in the federal supreme court later on.
Realistically the most we can do federally is mail in voting, but even that requires cooperation, and maybe a federal voter ID to appease republicans and provide a secondary form of federal identification that isnāt an SSN. If you want to do ANYTHING in regards to voting on a state level, it pretty much has to be done at a state level.
because weāre unconscionably good faith. We need to stop being like this, or at the very least, draw lines in the sand, and fucking destroy the conservative media empire (probably with another media empire, just without all of the disinfo propaganda) Iāve said it before, and iāll say it again, the dem party is the victim in a physically abusive relationship with the republican party. We need to recognize this and fucking leave. (although we canāt really leave, we have to win instead)
to be clear, biden has done a lot of really good things in his admin, the IRA and infra bill notably. Tons of funding for things like the CHIPS act, and a handful of other things, numerous border bills that wouldāve been productive, but were killed by republicans. Itās not āaesthetic legislationā but itās pretty damn good legislative regardless. The biden admin will probably go down as one of the most productive admins in US history.
this is literally just recency bias (and inconvenient timing) thereās nothing you can do about this, especially when the republicans are literally running a propaganda machine akin to the nazi regime. The best option iāve come up with thus far is that we just really need to commit to winning as a party. We have to do what we can to be as productive as possible, and that means leaving behind everything tangentially relevant (for a little bit at least)
the problem is that the figures are accurate, and what the people feel is literally delusional. People feel as if their 401ks were higher under trump, than they are now under biden.
This is literally impossible, it cannot happen (unless you withdraw money) what are we supposed to do against schizophrenic āvibes and feelsā There is nothing we can do, facts and figures are rooted in reality, at least. Thatās the one thing we have right now.
Do you think these people stayed home?
I know that they didnāt vote
You know there was 14 million less people this time l than last. You donāt know if they were Democrats. Literally low information, high opinion person. And we know what happens to them.
(Hell, you donāt even know that 14 million didnāt show because we donāt have the final vote total.)
Trump also has less votes than last time and almost all votes are tallied at this point, there isnāt millions left. Voters in general didnāt show up as much for this election.
Lowest turnout since 2020. Second highest since 1920.
Exactly. Trump got less votes than he did last election (which he lost).
What definitely didnāt happen is people changed their mind. Thatās impossible!