My thoughts is that it’s a simple situation really. If they’re harassing or assaulting people, the women will call the cops or something, simple situation and get the guy arrested. If he’s not doing anything, it’s nothing harmful. Apparently that’s not a solid enough answer. What should I have said?
I don’t get why we have different bathrooms at this point. Its more efficient to just have them all be family bathrooms with floor to ceiling stalls.
Was at a brewery last night where the “bathroom” was a row of sinks, and then a row of doors labeled “sit” or “stand”. The commode cubicles were full length walls and doors, totally private, and this just makes so much more sense to me
What public bathroom has dedicated security gaurds? Theres nothing stopping a man from just walking in without having to make stuff up. If someone is acting inappropriate in a public restroom then why does it matter whats in their pants? Gay/lesbian perverts exist too!
Is there a magical barrier that keeps men who don’t say they’re trans from entering women’s bathrooms?
Yes, peoples expectations, someone who’s obviously trans can use any bathroom, because it’s expected. If a guy walks into a girls bathroom the unknown becomes a real threat. Unless there’s a Karen then all bets are off. Tbh smaller establishments don’t need gendered bathrooms if it’s just a single toilet.
It’s quite interesting to see them make this argument while also claiming that gun control laws can’t possibly work because criminals won’t abide by them.
I guess we need to allow everyone to use any washroom because we need a good man in the women’s washroom to be around to save the women from a bad man in the women’s washroom
Careful, conservatives have historically been against desegregating spaces.
Not if it means white men can go wherever they want!
A fictitious rapist can only enter women’s bathrooms for raping purposes if they loudly declare that they are trans.
“See I’m trans. You have to let me in here to rape people.”
Oh I see, it’s like bankruptcy.
Yeah, this is probably the right way to go. There’s actually no bathroom police, for most people. It’s an issue in the first place because when someone is trans people will deputise themselves just to harass them.
The social contract, and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable and any women inside would likely scream and the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.
In my experience what happens is you look at each other confusedly for a moment, wondering who is in the wrong restroom. Then you realise there are no urinals so it’s probably the women’s restroom. Then the man leaves a bit embarrassed. Source: Happened to me at least twice (once the signs were really unclear).
So, no. I don’t think a rapist cares much if they’re perceived as a rapist. And a lot of (maybe most?) rapists know that they probably won’t be convicted even if caught.
The social contract
and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable
Rapists, well known followers of social contract who only do things that are acceptable…
It’s not concerning at all that this didn’t seem immensely silly and wrong when you typed it…
and any women inside would likely scream
Because if a bathroom allows trans women, women will then be unable to scream while facing an attempted rape?
the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.
Are you advocating that any man who even accidentally enters a woman’s restroom startling a woman be declared an attempted rapists?
Otherwise, they will be considered an attempted rapist whether trans and allowed in the bathroom or not…when they start doing the attempted rape…
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What should I have said?
“You think about strange men’s genitals a lot, don’t you?”
Or… “You seem to want to talk about sex a lot. Is everything OK at home?”
Depends how likely an actual productive conversation was. It’s not an invalid question without context. With the typical coconuts, yeah maybe just embarrass them.
It’s not an invalid question without context.
On the contrary: it is more than famous enough as a right-wing “gotcha” question that’s very fair to assume it’s invalid by default. Positive context would be necessary to justify treating it as genuine.
typical coconut
…? Brown on the outside, white on the inside? Like a white-washed Indian person?
It’s a meme, it means “context” here.
I’m not really getting it even after reading that page, but thank you lol
“Counter question: What stops a creep from doing that even if there was an anti trans law?”
Nothing, they’re not genuinely interested in a discussion. They’re just trying to pin you with a bad answer and will keep moving the goal post until they think they gotcha.
And if they can’t “getchya”, they’ll just stop responding or change the subject without ever acknowledging that you’ve proven your point.
This. ☝️
It’s best to ignore them. There’s no use getting into an argument with someone who’s disingenuous to start with.
Why are conservatives so worried about hypothetical scenarios involving gendering re: restrooms?
It’s come up exactly zero times ever in my entire lifespan, and I’m in my mid 40s now and have been in hundreds, if not thousands, of public restrooms.
I am a straight guy and I have used a woman’s restroom.
But only in the context that it was a single restroom and the men’s was occupied. I just unilaterally executed my male privilege and declared that the woman’s restroom was unisex for the time period that I needed it.
There was nobody else in the room and if there had been first the door would have been locked or I would have been absolutely mortified.
This was super common in college dorms as well. The etiquette was that if your hookup or friend was using the bathroom on your floor you were supposed to stand outside and let people know about it. You know, informed consent and all. Absolutely zero people ever gave a shit.
The entire fear kind of makes me assume that all conservatives are just opportunistic rapists who are kept in check my the thinnest veneer of social order.
Are single-sex dorms a thing over there? Ours were always mixed with unisex bathrooms - stalls for everyone.
They tended to be segregated by floor at that time. So you’d have a men’s or women’s room on every other floor. There were also still a few women’s only dorms, but my experience with those was basically the same. Nobody is leaving the building just to take a piss.
Literally the only times I have EVER seen it was when I was at concert and a woman came in and exclaimed that the line was too long for the women’s. I have never once seen a man go into a womens room
I have seen it in a few instances where the baby changing facilities were only in the women’s bathroom, and a father needed to access them. I wish that bathroom discourse could involve structural inequities like this, but the bigots are overly concerned about what is in people’s pants
I have actually used a restroom many times when someone of the “wrong” gender was cleaning it. It turns out that person did not try to get an angle to scope out my junk, or molest me or whatever these people believe is going to happen. If someone did that, I would pretty much react exactly the same regardless of their gender. I’d be like “bro what the fuck no free previews.”
What exactly do they think goes on in these bathrooms anyway?
Nothing.
Nothing is good enough. Gendered bathrooms are about repression. That’s why they are so mad about non-gendered toilets that are popping up.
This has always confused me for years since this “debate” became part of public dialog.
Why don’t we just have all non-gender bathrooms? A friend of mine used to live in an apartment building where the common area had 4 non-gendered bathrooms.
Each had a fold-out changing table, a single toilet, and a sink, so everybody was accommodated. Men, women, non-binary, trans folks, a parent with their baby or young child, and disabled people because the door was wide enough for a wheelchair and the toilets had support bars next to them.
Fully inclusive to everybody, and nicer than the typical restrooms because they were totally private.
I wish all bathrooms were like this. It would be so much easier for me as well as so many other people.
I know right! It feels like one of those rare true win-win scenarios where all parties involved are better off by the change.
So all restrooms should be gender free?
Yes. (Or rather, gender neutral.)
It would be cheaper to build actual walls in restrooms than to double their size systematically
Yeah. All private ones are already.
I actually prefer men and women separate restrooms because using the urinals is faster than going in to stalls, which reduces the wait time a bit. Then again, if you have two non gendered restrooms, you’ll get double throughput. Also, it would take a while to get adjusted to seeing both genders in the same restrooms, maybe I’m overthinking it, I’ve heard a university near me has non gendered restrooms only and the students are still adjusting to it.
Apologies if I’m rambling.
When I try to recall the few non-gendered public bathrooms I’ve been in, they all had private stalls with real doors. It was nice. I’d be happy if all public bathrooms were like that.
Yes. A room with a bunch of stalls and sinks.
European type stalls that is, floor to ceiling, real doors.
I don’t have gendered restrooms in my house and people seem to navigate those just fine. I feel like it would work for public restrooms too.
I’ve only been in a couple non-gendered communal bathrooms and it was a little odd, but only because I wasn’t used to it. The actual mechanics of it were basically the same as a normal bathroom. Go into a stall and do your business then come out and wash your mitts.
I don’t have a problem with it being the standard. I guess I wouldn’t think it would be a good idea for high schoolers because they’re always in heat.
Thats the thing right. You dont care whos shitting in the stall next to you. You’re busy shitting.
This is (should be) true for any public bathrooms, no matter the sign on the door.
Gendered bathrooms where a godsend for women.
There was a time women couldn’t travel far from their home bathroom. it was called the lavatory leash.
The current problem is bigots and “communal” toilets (in that order), not gendered toilets.
Explain the scare quotes.
You should have asked him if he’s planning to do that.
You made a mistake.
You engaged with someone that wasn’t asking in good faith. The idea itself is so stupid that snagging engaging with it isn’t worth the time and effort.
The only useful response to that question is “are you really that stupid, or do you think I am?”
That’s a false dichotomy. Perverts of any gender and inclination can do harmful stuff anywhere. In an idealistic world, a bathroom shouldn’t have to be gendered, because all that you’re doing is relieving yourself - I mean, look at your own homes first. Putting the gender-neutral stuff aside, this isn’t about trans-women, this is about men who are perverts. Even if things such as cross-dressing, gender-changing surgeries or trans-women were non-existent/erased in a hypothetical world, these perverts will find other ways to violate or harass women.
The argument made by the person asking that question is not based on any realistic fear they have actually thought through. On the big list of gendered violence, a cis dude saying they are trans to accomplish… being present in a bathroom without themselves getting harrassed… doesn’t even register.
Instead, this is just a typical attempt to punch down based on an imagined danger, usually on someone else’s behalf. There’s nothing an oppressor likes more than a piece of illogic that frames their target of oppression as, sneakily, the real oppressor. In this case, it is trans people wanting bathroom access without having to out themselves or to otherwise just not contradict their gender. Gender neutral bathrooms would also be acceptable, or even better, but cis people have insisted on gendered bathrooms. Rather than say, “yeah trans people shouldn’t have to put up with that cis bathroom bullshit”, reactionaries try to come up with ways to reframe the ask as its own form of oppression. This is also the mainstay of TERFs, basically just cis women that pretend trans women are oppressing them by wanting basic equal consideration.
Depending on who this person is, you may want to try various tactics. If you think you can be flippant and dismissive of them, definitely do that preferentiallu. Make them feel like they are being ridiculous and that if they really care about violence against women they should work on guaranteeing housing for all and hate cops. If you can’t be flippant, I recommend still not taking it seriously but just changing the subject to the actual act of oppression and telling them more or less what I said in previous paragraphs. All of this assumes this us a person whose mind you want to change, like that of a friend or family member. If it is a colleague, start documenting their transphobuc comments and see if anyone else has your concerns, get their documentation as well. If it is just some rando, just tell them to shut the fuck up with bad faith transphobia and move on.
“Trans people aren’t super-sayajins so existing assault laws are probably fine”
ask them what happens when a guy walks into a women’s restroom and says they’re a trans-man but is lying and isn’t actually trans?
Its an ancient argument and your answer is correct.
There is no cock check at restroom doors anyone can enter.
