We can do both, we can vote to try to change things and we can also try to force things when the people we vote for don’t do the things they said they would to get us to vote. I don’t know why so many people act like it has to be one or the other
What you described is pretty much how electorialism works in the real world, both in the past and the present, and thanks to that we live in an absolute utopia.
But on a more serious note, liberal democracy is just an illusion of freedom and an illusion of “power for the people”. In reality, it’s been meticulously crafted to only benefit the rich with its barriers for entry designed to keep the poor out - for instance, one has to get an expensive education to even get started (or have a load of money to buy a degree outright), having enough money to fund a platform for yourself to get enough supporters to form a party, then do expensive advertising of your party’s message, having funds to combat any kind of political meddling from the competition, connections that one wealthy enough might get are also incredibly helpful, etc. There’s a reason why the vast majority of politicians parents links are blue on wikipedia - it’s not a meritocracy.
There’s many more critiques like how checks & balances are there to keep the capitalist system and not necessarily to stop abuses as certain populists are demonstrating nowadays, how people are essentially powerless after voting for the next 4-5 years, electorialism being used to distract from class struggle (via reactionary politics, culture wars) which keeps people from turning against the rich properly and instead choosing which side of the rich one wants to support, etc.
In short, if there’s going to be any meaningful, good change for us workers, it isn’t going to come from electorialism, and its important to be aware of this fact, not grow too complacent.
At the same time, there’s no revolution to be seen, partly precisely because of the things outlined above so yeah…
i dont think direct action and self organizing should be a reaction to people voted into power acting against the interests of the people. i see then as the goals in themselves.
we should not be ruled by anyone, not even people we voted for. the power needs to be with us, the people. representative democracy is taking that power away.
so i would say, even when politions in power do what the people who elected them want them to do, we should still self organize, to regain our own power and not be relient on the mercy of politions
And that unwillingness to engage in silliness is how we fucking got the fascists burning the country down. Good thing people chose to be “serious” instead 🙄
it has nothing to do with unwillingness. it’s simply part of my survival as a trans abolitionist to refuse voting for trans and Palestinian genocide such as what the Democrats are enacting in collaboration with Republicans
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve gone through this song and dance before. I believe that electoralism has its place to minimize the harm to society, but plenty of others would rather hide behind their morality instead of supporting a bad candidate in the face of guaranteed worse outcomes.
as a trans abolitionist to refuse voting for trans and Palestinian genocide
The trans genocide is explicitly pushed by the people that were voted into power by 1/3 of the country and co-signed by another third who couldn’t be bothered to vote. I voted against it to protect my trans loved ones, and it baffles me that trans people wouldn’t even vote in their own best interests.
But I’m not going to bother engaging past this, as we both know how this conversation is going to go. Good day.
Sure the entire political system is being dismantled and nobody has to vote next time around, but at least you didn’t vote for a genocide that is only getting worse because you didn’t.
They gotta huff that copium so they don’t have to think about how their inaction helped turn a made up blue trans genocide into a real red trans genocide.
I almost find it hilarious how unhinged the far left is, but the hellscape we get to live in takes away all the humor short of the gallows.
oh there’s nothing more beautiful about the trans experience than being blamed for your own murder because you weren’t nice enough to the cis people complacent in it
I said nothing about being nice. I said you should take action. All people should take all possible actions they reasonably can to prevent this kind of shit. That includes voting. Being complacent is not an option.
![Revolugeddon [Rule]](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1be97d94-7a8e-42b1-b9a4-6b86f72ea1f6.jpeg){kind=link}
We can do both, we can vote to try to change things and we can also try to force things when the people we vote for don’t do the things they said they would to get us to vote. I don’t know why so many people act like it has to be one or the other
What you described is pretty much how electorialism works in the real world, both in the past and the present, and thanks to that we live in an absolute utopia.
But on a more serious note, liberal democracy is just an illusion of freedom and an illusion of “power for the people”. In reality, it’s been meticulously crafted to only benefit the rich with its barriers for entry designed to keep the poor out - for instance, one has to get an expensive education to even get started (or have a load of money to buy a degree outright), having enough money to fund a platform for yourself to get enough supporters to form a party, then do expensive advertising of your party’s message, having funds to combat any kind of political meddling from the competition, connections that one wealthy enough might get are also incredibly helpful, etc. There’s a reason why the vast majority of politicians parents links are blue on wikipedia - it’s not a meritocracy.
There’s many more critiques like how checks & balances are there to keep the capitalist system and not necessarily to stop abuses as certain populists are demonstrating nowadays, how people are essentially powerless after voting for the next 4-5 years, electorialism being used to distract from class struggle (via reactionary politics, culture wars) which keeps people from turning against the rich properly and instead choosing which side of the rich one wants to support, etc.
In short, if there’s going to be any meaningful, good change for us workers, it isn’t going to come from electorialism, and its important to be aware of this fact, not grow too complacent.
At the same time, there’s no revolution to be seen, partly precisely because of the things outlined above so yeah…
i dont think direct action and self organizing should be a reaction to people voted into power acting against the interests of the people. i see then as the goals in themselves.
we should not be ruled by anyone, not even people we voted for. the power needs to be with us, the people. representative democracy is taking that power away.
so i would say, even when politions in power do what the people who elected them want them to do, we should still self organize, to regain our own power and not be relient on the mercy of politions
no thx. voting is silly
And that unwillingness to engage in silliness is how we fucking got the fascists burning the country down. Good thing people chose to be “serious” instead 🙄
it has nothing to do with unwillingness. it’s simply part of my survival as a trans abolitionist to refuse voting for trans and Palestinian genocide such as what the Democrats are enacting in collaboration with Republicans
So instead you allow worse through tacit support.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve gone through this song and dance before. I believe that electoralism has its place to minimize the harm to society, but plenty of others would rather hide behind their morality instead of supporting a bad candidate in the face of guaranteed worse outcomes.
The trans genocide is explicitly pushed by the people that were voted into power by 1/3 of the country and co-signed by another third who couldn’t be bothered to vote. I voted against it to protect my trans loved ones, and it baffles me that trans people wouldn’t even vote in their own best interests.
But I’m not going to bother engaging past this, as we both know how this conversation is going to go. Good day.
enjoy your blue trans genocide bestie! Kamala will give us free HRT in the concentration camps
Enjoy your real trans genocide then, I guess.
Sure the entire political system is being dismantled and nobody has to vote next time around, but at least you didn’t vote for a genocide that is only getting worse because you didn’t.
They gotta huff that copium so they don’t have to think about how their inaction helped turn a made up blue trans genocide into a real red trans genocide.
I almost find it hilarious how unhinged the far left is, but the hellscape we get to live in takes away all the humor short of the gallows.
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oh there’s nothing more beautiful about the trans experience than being blamed for your own murder because you weren’t nice enough to the cis people complacent in it
I said nothing about being nice. I said you should take action. All people should take all possible actions they reasonably can to prevent this kind of shit. That includes voting. Being complacent is not an option.
deleted by creator
Well you contributed to it being worse which makes you morally inferior, but go off I guess