• Skua@kbin.earth
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    3 hours ago

    The geneva convention does not refer exclusively to inviting confidence of protection.

    It does not refer to anything but that. If you think it does, quote it. Your personal feelings on whether or not it has perfidious vibes aren’t really enough here.

    But being blown up by a booby trapped civilian device in a civilian area seems quite treacherous.

    Russia thinks that the bomb was monitored and manually detonated, which would make it not a booby trap. As such it’s now just “combatant kills enemy combatant with a grenade from a hidden position, no civilian casualties”. The Ukrainians are not required to warn an enemy general about the specifics of how he might get hurt in the war he is fighting.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
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      3 hours ago

      https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/1996/05/19960503 01-38 AM/Ch_XXVI_02_bp.pdf

      Definition:

      1. “Booby-trap” means any device or material which is designed, constructed, or adapted to kill or injure, and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently harmless object or performs an apparently safe act.

      Article 7 Prohibitions on the Use of booby-traps and other devices 1. Without prejudice to the rules of international applicable in armed conflict to treachery and perfidy, is prohibited in all Circumstances to use booby-traps and devices which are any way attached to or associated with: […]
      2. It is prohibited to use booby-traps or other devices in the form of apparently harmless portable objects which are specifically designed and constructed contain explosive material. .
      3. Without prejudice to provisions of Article 3, it is prohibited to use weapons to which this Article applies in any city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians in which combat between ground forces is not taking place or not appear to be imminent, unless either:
      (a) they are placed on or in the close vicinity of a military objective; or
      (b) measures are taken to protect civilians from their effects, for example, the posting of warning sentries, the of warnings or the provision of fences.

      The Prohibition of specific booby traps such as medical devices explicitly notes that it does not limit the scope of treachery and perfidy. So it even links the use of booby traps to the categories of treachery and perfidy, because it is blatantly obvious to be exactly that.

      The definition of booby-traps does not make any limit on how they are triggered.

      means any device or material which is designed, constructed, or adapted to kill or injure

      clearly an exploding scooter is designed to do exactly that.

      and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently harmless object or performs an apparently safe act.

      The key here is that the unexpectedly is from the perspective of the victim. This becomes clear as it relates to the victims approach to the object or interaction with it, which should not lead to the object exploding under normal circumstances. From the attackers perspective it is always expected to explode, be it by manual trigger or some sort of automation.

      A scooter is not expected to explode as you pass by it. Also the remote detonation is irrelevant to the general prohibition of using them outside an area where fighting is ongoing or imminent.

      • Skua@kbin.earth
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        3 hours ago

        and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently harmless object or performs an apparently safe act.

        Neither approaching nor disturbing the scooter caused this bomb to function according to Russia. It does not meet this definition of a booby trap.

        • Saleh@feddit.org
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          3 hours ago

          Obviously the trap was detonated, when he was within the detonation range. So it functioned when he approached it. The definition does not say that it has to function triggered by his approach. The triggering is entirely irrelevant.

          • Skua@kbin.earth
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            3 hours ago

            Under your interpretation, a soldier hiding in a bush with a grenade is a booby trap. There is no way you can seriously believe that that includes something manually triggered. The entire point of banning booby traps is that they are by their nature indiscriminate, which a monitored and manually triggered weapon obviously is not

            • Saleh@feddit.org
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              2 hours ago

              A soldier hiding in a bush is a combatant. The grenade in his hand is a weapon. It is easily discernible as such both by other soldiers and by civilians. And both soldiers and civilians will expect a grenade to explode when it is thrown at them, or at least they understand the risk of a grenade potentially exploding, if it is laying around. So they expect it to be explosive.

              Lets go through the definition word for word again:

              “Booby-trap” means any device or material which is designed, constructed, or adapted to kill or injure, and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently harmless object or performs an apparently safe act.

              any device

              A soldier is not a device, a grenade is, a scooter is

              or material

              A soldier is not a material, a grenade is not a material, but made from some, same for a scooter

              which is designed, constructed, or adapted

              A soldier is not designed, a grenade is and this specific scooter was

              to kill or injure

              all three kill or injure

              and which functions

              all three function

              unexpectedly

              A soldier is expected to be a danger, so is a grenade, a scooter is not

              when

              https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/when
              at what time; at the time at which:

              a person

              the guy assassinated is a person. It does not say civilian or combatant. Any human being counts

              disturbs or approaches

              he moved into the explosion range, so he approached

              an apparently harmless object

              a soldier is not a harmless object. a grenade is not a harmless object. A scooter normally and by the expectation of normal circumstances is a harmless object

              or performs an apparently safe act

              this means an interaction with the device itself that should be safe. E.g. if you set fire to a gas bottle as a civilian you cannot expect it not to explode

              Nowhere does it say that the device or material needs to have any sort of automation. Nowhere does it say, that a remote trigger is excepted. Nowhere does it say, that it must be targeting combatants or civilians, both go equally.