I said something along the lines of:
“Wow, I haven’t had a reason to smile ear to ear in a while.”
Along with
“Nah, the more dead corpos dragons, the better.”
In response to some liberal going off about how violence is never the solution, not mentioning how this murdered dipshit has personally overseen a system that perpetuates harm, suffering and death (violence) in the name of profit.
…
Good ole’ civility clause.
Whats the paradox of tolerance?
.world mods have never heard of it I guess.
I looked at the logs myself, and it absolutely was power tripping. Jury nullification discussion isn’t even illegal for fucks sake.
dios mío, A LIBERAL!
I think they should make a post addressing this but it is pretty funny to see people’s reactions
Can’t comment on bans/deservedness. Lemmy is infested with mods/agents/bots that are pro empire/CIA/military paid protectors of disinformation and said empire.
I don’t think a tankie has any right to complain about propaganda online.
A 24 hour temp ban for celebrating violence is actually pretty reserved. Certainly not power tripping.
Denying millions of legitimate claims that directly leads to many people being physically harmed or dying is violence on a large scale. So is lobying the government to keep healthcare in shambles for hundreds of millions of people.
It’s a less visible, less gorey form of violence than a gun, but violence that begets mass suffering and death nonetheless.
If you define that as violence then everything is violence and nothing is legitimate. Overly broad definitions meant to paralyze society are a form of violence because people will die if we take no action, but we can’t take action because Vent defined that as violence.
All I’m getting from this is that you’re fine with people needlessly dying as long as the death wasn’t a direct result of violence.
Of course not. But more death isn’t the answer. Because we’ve seen that route and it doesn’t end the cycle. Check out France and Russia. They didn’t solve anything with their incredibly violent reprisals against their ruling classes. The only way to end this cycle is to end the existence of a wealthy elite. Which you can do by taking their money away.
What about WWII? The US Revolution? The US civil war? The Haitian Revolution? Is France really worse off now? Ukraine?
Violence / death is very rarely the answer to anything, but it’s a cold hard fact that sometimes it is, especially when you start bringing war and revolutions into it, lmao.
The only way to end this cycle is to end the existence of a wealthy elite. Which you can do by taking their money away.
“Hand over your money, please!”
To be clear, I’m not advocating for killing anyone in the streets, and vigilante justice like this is not something I’d like to see, but the blanket response of “violence bad” is plain wrong.
The US Revolution wasn’t anything like the French and Russian ones. Haiti was but it wasn’t Haitians that screwed them over afterwards, it was the US. So maybe they could have been the one time where an orgy of violence worked?
To be clear, I’m not advocating for killing anyone in the streets, and vigilante justice like this is not something I’d like to see, but the blanket response of “violence bad” is plain wrong.
Except you’re here defending exactly that.
Based on your arguments here you’re basically saying that celebrating (or maybe even even simply not condemning?) this act of violence means that you must tacitly endorse this type of violence, correct? That’s a very long bow to draw.
I think most people, myself included, would much prefer a non-violent way to prevent capitalists from profiting directly from the physical and financial misery of sick and dying people. Like maybe some stronger laws, better regulation and enforcement, and active prosecution of non-compliant companies and their bosses, for a start, right? But in the seeming absence of that possibility, why not let folks have their schadenfreude moment in peace?
Whats the paradox of tolerance?
It’s a fucking paradox.
It honestly amazes me that damned near everyone seems to miss that part, even though it’s in the fucking name.
The policy is happening at the lemmy.world level, not the individual mod level.
It’s right there in the Terms of Service (which nobody actually ever reads):
https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
"1. Attacks on users or groups
Before using the website, remember you will be interacting with actual, real people and communities. Lemmy.World is not a place for you to attack other people or groups of people. Just because you disagree with someone doesn’t give you the right to harass them. Discuss ideas and be critical of principles. Show the respect you desire to receive.
We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature."
We faced the same problem in the Politics community when Henry Kissinger died.
But I’m not calling for violence. It already happened. And it’s not against something living, at least not anymore.
You ever notice that you only circle the wagons to defend the worst? Always seem to go out of your way to do it too. I don’t see any threats in that picture. Nothing that even could be reasonably called a threat. Yet up pops Jordan to save the day. Almost like clockwork.
Best or worst doesn’t enter into it, it’s simply policy. People might not LIKE that it’s the policy, more likely they never read the policy in the first place.
As somebody else pointed out, the policy is calls for violence against living creatures. What is the connection with being happy that somebody has already died?
Seems more like opinion than policy to me.
We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature.
So lemmy.world forbids discussion about hunting?
About fishing?
About organized industrial agriculture?
About austerity measures?
About prison systems?
About police?
…
I’ll give you that my comment about hoping more corpos die actually breaks those rules, but uh, I’m using lemmy on mobile, through an app.
It would be helpful to list this rule in the instance sidebar that mobile users can actually see.
…
But anyway, this says nothing about celebrating or joking about a violence that has already happened.
Celebration and jokes, on their own, are not threats nor calls for violence.
If you wanna say that you’re not allowed to celebrate or joke about violence that happened to a person or thing, without threatening or calling for further violence (like my smiling comment, and many other recently deleted for tos comments) it would probably be a good idea to actually have a rule for that.
… Also, can you harass or perpetuate violence against a dead person?
… Is it considered violence if you mock a dead person? Harassment?
Yeah, that’s some lib shit if I’ve ever seen it. There’s no reason to write the rules so narrowly, but if you do and you coincidentally only enforce it against people threatening power, you deserve the vegan police in your reports constantly.
Hey look, it’s the shitty Zionist bootlicking mod themselves.
LOL - this you?
A running tally of my proudest moments.
Oh, but I bet you thought that was some kind of gotcha, didn’t you? Like some neckbeard white redditor from Portland is gonna make me feel bad about being uncivil in his fiefdom.
No, it means users with a track record of uncivil comments can simply be dismissed with a subtle jerking off motion.
Your opinions are always the same, have no value, add nothing to the communities in which you pretend to participate.
I’ve seen your pictures, I’m sure you’re pretty familiar with that motion.
Ok, challenge accepted: every instance I come across from .world that has any indication of violence against anything living, well, I’ll be reporting that, and I expect the mods to follow up on it quickly.
I’ll start with the gardening instances, since plants do feel pain, and thus any pruning/harvesting/etc is an act of violence, and I’m surprised the .world mods haven’t shut down such a violent instance.
Wait, they need to be banned outright, actually, because in order to garden, users are going to have to suggest that people dig into the dirt, and that’s a pretty blatant call of violence against all organisms, including those at the microscopic level.
Better delete the woodworking instance too, since the only way to work with wood is to kill a tree and dismember its body, often skinning it immediately after it’s been sawed off at the knees, juuuuuuust fresh enough to feel all the pain but not enough to fight back.
What an absolute joke.
Many of us .world mods had nothing to do with these deletions and bannings and I would caution you against this sort of flag abuse in the communities I moderate. It looks like you have already started.
If you have an issue with what happened with the mods in c/news, don’t take it out on the rest of us.
We hardly ever even delete comments in Ten Forward, let alone ban people.
Or you could clarify your instance wide rules, which were apparently the justification for deleting a lot of what just got deleted?
I’m not gonna go around report flagging everything, I’m not that petty, and I don’t know who’s in charge of instance wide vs community specific rules, but maybe the core lemmy admin/mod crew should all actually clarify that you’re not allowed to joke about or celebrate people’s deaths, and that you don’t actually mean that any threat of violence toward any living thing is actually against TOS.
It’s not flag abuse. It’s clearly written in the instance TOS.
“We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature.”
Ooooh, he cautions us. How scary. I’m shivering in my bunny slippers here.
I reported things that belong to the .world instance, and therefore fall under the .world rules under the .world Terms of Service we all agreed to.
I have nothing against you or your community, and hope you’re doing well healthwise.
But I’ve also seen you rail against “not all cops are bad” as the lie you know it is in various comment sections, and now you’re using the same excuse as to why your forum shouldn’t be criticized. “We’re not part of that, bring it up with them, even though we belong to the same org.”
The rules apply to all of the forums on the instance, or it should apply to none of them. And if such radical thinking, the notion rules should be applied evenly and not be so broad to allow anything to meet the definition, results in me being banned from .world, then I welcome it.
Dude, you’re pissed off at one group of people (actually, it looks like one specific person) and attacking a totally different group because of it. That’s what is going to get you banned. But it also sounds like that’s what you want to happen, so I guess enjoy that.
If it’s one specific person, shouldn’t the rest of you, y’know, do something about it?
What do you expect me to do about the one specific person they are pissed off at? Even if they are justifiably pissed off, what exactly do you think it is in my power to do?
I’d assume that the rest of the mods could stop a rogue mod from blatantly abusing their power. But if you can’t, nevermind.
I’m just here to point out that everyone’s going to use the downvote button as a “disagree” button and the upvote as “agree,” and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop us. You can’t hold back the tide.
Yes.
As an anarchist, I am keenly aware that rules are merely suggestions, and are utterly meaningless when no system exists to actually enforce them.
The whole thing is all just made up. There are no “rules” written down like there are for software systems. There are just shared habits and models of the world, and traditions for how to react. In general, people agree and keep it all consistent enough from day to day that the rules in their heads translate into behavior and dependable systems in the real world. But it’s all just made up. It’s just people deciding what to do, every minute, in every society, based on what they decide in their brain, no matter how strict the “rules” that supposedly exist are.
Like how we could ‘make up’ having a healthcare system that provides universal affordable care to all citizens, but instead … we …
(not actually all of us, actually the extremely wealthy and influential people who control government policy and all the media that tells us what to think about government policy)
… ‘we’ make up a horrible, unjust system that perpetuates suffering, violence and death, so that a tiny minority of people can profit!
What I’m saying is that there is no mechanical system that puts those particular people in charge.
We had the gilded age, we had the labor battles that laid the foundation for the working economy of the 20th century, we had the New Deal and prosperity for a lot of people, then we let it get away from us and the crooks took charge again. But it all can change. We can make it different. People have fought their way back to good government from places a million times worse than modern-day America.
I’m not sure what you mean by mechanical.
Obviously there is not a physical machine like a 3d printer that produces a sociopoliticaleconomic system.
But there are absolutely empirically verified theories within sociology, political science, and economics which describe why historical events happened with a pretty good degree of accuracy, and a lot of them do function pretty mechanistically to predict likely future outcomes, though with a wider margin of possibility than physics predicting a physical machine.
I’m saying that nothing enforces these particular people being in charge, other than everyone agreeing that these are the people in charge, and that can change.
It has, in huge ways, for better and worse depending, all throughout history.
Holy fuck what’s wrong with you peole. Two wrongs doesn’t make it right
Two wrongs can make you feel better about the first though, and that’s good enough for me!
So much for “freedom of speech”, unless you’re rich or a CEO i guess…
The First Amendment right to freedom of speech in the USA applies to the relationship between citizens and the government’s authority. Lemmy servers are not the US government, and Lemmy users must abide by the Terms of Service on the Lemmy servers they use.
It’s that simple.
You still have the freedom to create your own server and host whatever content you want on there. Lemmy is open source I believe so you can go right ahead and federate your own free speech.
Side note, I’m not saying this to defend health insurance crooks. I’m currently dealing with several insurance problems with denied coverage myself. We can all see the motive of that hooded man clearly.
Lemmy users must abide by the Terms of Service on the Lemmy servers they use.
And the problem currently under discussion is that OP did not break any of the ToS, but was banned anyway for saying something the admins disagreed with.
So much for “freedom of speech”, unless you’re rich or a CEO i guess…
That’s not what the top comment in this thread was discussing at all. There’s no rights to freedom of speech on lemmy.
I wasn’t aware lemmy was the government.
Bans on any Lemmy instance are stupid because nobody gives a fuck about this place. This is just 4Chan for milquetoast nerds
I feel both attacked and delighted by this lmao
I want to say that this is a case where it’s not clearly either a PTB or a YDI situation. The mods seem to be enforcing their comm/instance rules, albeit their rules in this instance seem over the top.
I wonder what kind of acronym would fit this description. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.
TBD - Tyranny By Design
I’d say PTB but I guess TBD will do.
Who does it benefit to have instance rules like this? On LW you are not allowed to promote or celebrate any form of violence, so no matter how oppresive the state is, and no matter who the object of violence is (rapist, murderer, genocider, Nazi). The LW view seems to be that it would be uncivil to resist your own systematic exploitation and oppression in this way, and that it is always wrong to promote violence, even agaist literal Nazis. I’ve noticed most of the liberal instances have a similar policy. With a soft liberal underbelly like that, I dread to think what sort of milquetoast resistance to fascism the US population will be able to muster over the next few years.
Can we please not turn this place into acronym soup like Reddit was in places?
You don’t even save that much time.
Power tripping bastard
You did it yourself
You save quite some time
That time being spent searching through the comments trying to decipher the acronyms.
Well, if you’re searching comments instead of reading the sidebar that’s always available, then you deserve to spend hours doing it.
The bans seem to be lifted.
yes i only banned for 24 hours so that more information could be found additionally there were directions that people encouraging, cheering, making joke of, discussing payment, or of jury nullification are against the terms of service for lemmy.world. as of now there is new information regarding this section of the terms of service which will be announced and explained by the admins. i am sorry to those that feel i was excessive we have discuss this among the moderators and will use the lock power to reduce the moderator workflow. for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us. i recognize my bias in this and will work to be more restrained going forward.
You should stop being a mod. For so many reasons.
Agreed, this is insanely concerning.
Jury nullification is a legal right any jurist in the US has, which is why liberals hate it.
i am not from the united states and there are countries with laws differant from the united states I was asked to remove these things for this reason
So let me get you to repeat that so I know you didn’t misspeak. The admins of Lemmy.world instructed you to remove posts educating people about their rights in the country they live in? Can you tag them so we can discuss those admins here?
You are perfect… For Reddit. Go back there.
PTB, comments celebrating a person who’s horrible are not encouraging violence. This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.
I think this comment snippet speaks for itself honestly.
Well, I’m as much god as whatever they’re worshipping, so I guess I’ll do the judging.
This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
“for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.”
The dastardly, scurilous, vile agenda that human life is sacred. Well done Sherlock, you uncovered the next Hitler.
Why is it, that every time I see a post from you, you’re saying something stupid?
They’re just one of the many trolls or bad faith lemmy users who hasn’t been banned by the server you’re on or their home server admins. Like Linkerbaan, hopefully they will in the future. I made a spreadsheet of users like that, since Lemmy itself has no way to tag or leave notes on user’s profiles that only you can see.
If they or even you really believed human life was sacred you’d see the piece of shit who died for the piece of shit he is as he and his company was responsible for the deaths of so many many innocent people. Instead of trying to hide behind worthless religious doctrine and saying it’s wrong to be happy that this evil person died because “all life is sacred” this is like saying “All lives matter” as a reactionary response to BLM, it makes you and that other commenter sound like one of those alt-right religious types, in the same way saying “all lives matter” in response to BLM makes you sound like a racist pig.
You may think what you are saying is good and may be confused as to why people are angry at you. The fact is that the context of the situation can make something that seems and indeed is considered good in a vacuum can make it look and sound extremely bad and make the person saying it just as bad.
Sorry for the double reply. I’ll create a list of alternatives to .world communities here; I’ll also add the ones you guys suggest, as long as not from .ml (as .ml and .world are apparently peas from the same pod.)
technology: !technology@lemmy.zip
politics: !uk_politics@feddit.uk (UK), !pleasantpolitics@slrpnk.net (USA), !canadapolitics@lemmy.ca (Canada), !australianpolitics@aussie.zone (Oz), !politics@beehaw.org (allegedly world, in practice USA)
news: !world@quokk.au , !globalnews@lemmy.zip
comic strips: I couldn’t find any general comm, but there’s !cyanideandhappiness@lemm.ee and !thefarside@sh.itjust.works
microblog memes: !best_of_mastodon@sh.itjust.works , !whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works , nonpoliticaltwitter@civilloquy.com
political memes: !politicalmemes@lemmy.ca , !leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
memes: !memes@sopuli.xyz
ask lemmy: !asklemmy@lemm.ee
movies and animattion: !movies@lemm.ee , !showsandmovies@lemm.ee , !animation@lemm.ee . Specifically for Japanese anime there’s ani.social (the whole instance).
EDIT: apparently the moderators apologised, including in this thread. So what I said that both are peas from the same pod might be inaccurate - it’s a matter of scale.
.
It’s funny that, when I created a list of .ml alternatives, some entitled prick was lying/assuming/bullshitting that I was trying to kill LW - since I didn’t list any LW comm. If the prick said the same now it would be true. [Still blocked because I got no time for assumers.]
So are you saying that in those communities celebrating murder is encouraged or what?
I’m saying that those communities are not in an instance where the admins enforce hidden rules, unlike .world and .ml. At least, not as far as I know.
Is this clear now?
For world@quokk.au, you’re free to celebrate good news such as a CEO getting an early retirement package.
But say like if you celebrated an activist or leftist dying etc, it would be frowned upon and assessed on a case-by-case basis.
I find it very good that this community is becoming the de-facto central point to ensure mods are kept in check and that such comments can be made and found.
Ditto; I don’t know if you planned this role for the comm, but it feels like a natural evolution - from complaining about mod abuse to acting against it.
I’m honestly shocked my own comment didn’t get deleted. When I saw how many were being nuked, I had to chime in. I guess they missed it in the chaos.
