- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
The United States has spent a record of at least $17.9 billion on military aid to Israel since the war in Gaza began and led to escalating conflict around the Middle East, according to a report for Brown University’s Costs of War project, released on the anniversary of Hamas’ attacks on Israel.
An additional $4.86 billion has gone into stepped-up U.S. military operations in the region since the Oct. 7, 2023, attacks, researchers said in findings first provided to The Associated Press. That includes the costs of a Navy-led campaign to quell strikes on commercial shipping by Yemen’s Houthis, who are carrying them out in solidarity with the fellow Iranian-backed group Hamas.
The report — completed before Israel opened a second front, this one against Iranian-backed Hezbollah militants in Lebanon, in late September — is one of the first tallies of estimated U.S. costs as the Biden administration backs Israel in its conflicts in Gaza and Lebanon and seeks to contain hostilities by Iran-allied armed groups in the region.
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Disgusting
18 billion dollars on a country that
- has a developed arms industry
- isn’t fighting a superior enemy
- isn’t fighting defensively
- isn’t adhering to international law
- has killed multiple US citizens in cold blood
- has invaded neighboring countries
- not to mention the whole genocide thing
- did I mention it’s mainly a genocide of children?
Fuck Israel. I fucking hate nazis and they look an awful lot like nazis to me
Sorry I read that as the US spent nearly 18 billion of tax payers money on health and education for the US.
Alas, my mistake. Looks like business as usual.
This right here is why the presidential election is still close in spite of one side being a couple of mentally unwell and personally repulsive habitual liars.
I don’t condone being a single issue (non)voter, but millions of people are and insisting on a simultaneously morally repugnant and electorally ruinous course of action could very well cost the election and end American democracy.
The problem is that the people who are single issue voters in this situation are in the age bracket that doesn’t vote no matter how much politicians cater to their wants and needs, and that’s proven by other countries as well (where there’s more parties to vote for).
As well, there’s a higher % of Israel supporters in the 65+ group (that votes) than Palestine supporters in the 18-35 group (that doesn’t vote), so let’s say Harris comes out and says “We’ll stop sending weapons to Israel”, she very well could be handing the keys to the White House to Trump, which will send even more weapons to them AND will stop helping Ukraine AND will directly and indirectly lead to thousands of deaths locally (migrants, LGBTQ+, minorities…)
The problem is that the people who are single issue voters in this situation are in the age bracket that doesn’t vote no matter how much politicians cater to their wants and needs
That’s a popular myth but it’s just not true.
First of all, young people DO vote when they have something to vote FOR in stead of only something to vote against.
For example, the Kansas ballot measure that failed to make abortion illegal in the state had more young women voting than men of all ages combined.
It’s very convenient for center right to right wing establishment Democrats and their friends in the media to say “they don’t vote, so we might as well ignore them” (quiet part: “in favor of our rich donors”), but in reality some of them don’t vote because all of them are ignored.
Second, it’s not only 18 to 20-something Gen Z voters that are overwhelmingly and vehemently opposed to the genocide and US participation in it. It’s also millennials. Combined, those two groups are every voter from 18 to 40-something. Do you REALLY think the Dems can afford to ignore everyone under 50?
and that’s proven by other countries as well (where there’s more parties to vote for).
Nope. In countries with fewer barriers to voting and enough choices that they don’t have to vote for the lesser evil every time, young voters vote as much as any age group except 60/65+
As well, there’s a higher % of Israel supporters in the 65+ group (…) than Palestine supporters in the 18-35 group
Yeah, I highly doubt it… Also, as I previously pointed out, the eldest millennials are in their 40s and overwhelmingly anti genocide and anti apartheid.
so let’s say Harris comes out and says “We’ll stop sending weapons to Israel”, she very well could be handing the keys to the White House to Trump,
On the contrary. NOT doing that or anything in that direction is what could hand it to Trump.
which will send even more weapons to them AND will stop helping Ukraine AND will directly and indirectly lead to thousands of deaths locally (migrants, LGBTQ+, minorities…)
You don’t have to sell me on Trump being much worse. I was clear about knowing that in my first comment.
Which is, apart from the fact that it’s morally repugnant, why I’m protesting the disastrous pro-Israel stance of the white house and the Harris campaign.
My man, I’m in Canada, young people have options, a minority of them vote. In France they vote less than other groups and a minority votes during the legislatives. A minority in the UK as well. It’s also historically true looking back
If people reliably don’t vote even If it means things being worse for them and even if they have options then what do they expect politicians to do?
“I highly doubt it”, that’s the thing, I’ve researched what I’m saying, you haven’t
I’m in Canada and you’re wrong. Source
https://electionsanddemocracy.ca/elections-numbers-0/table-voter-turnout-age-group
No I’m not, right from the horse’s mouth
My data is from StatsCan, who I trust more than your source.
so let’s say Harris comes out and says “We’ll stop sending weapons to Israel”, she very well could be handing the keys to the White House to Trump
And she very well could be handing the keys to the White House to Trump by not saying it.
The question she needs to ask herself, is it worth risking America to enable genocide?
Again, as I already said, even if she came out and said it, the people it’s important for still won’t come out and vote.
You keep saying that but offer zero facts to back it up. Maybe it’s time you find the data to do that.
Look at other country data?
https://electionsanddemocracy.ca/elections-numbers-0/table-voter-turnout-age-group
https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/age-and-voting-behaviour-at-the-2019-general-election/ (2024 numbers not available yet)
Just a reminder homelessness is at the highest it’s been since the great depression, bridges are literally collapsing across the US, we still don’t have universal health care despite already paying enough in healthcare taxes to fully cover all US citizens and residents, we still don’t have free public college, minimum wage now cannot rent a 1 bedroom apartment anywhere in the country, and credit card debt is the highest it’s ever been by any measure.
But Israel somehow comes before all of that because …
homelessness is at the highest it’s been since the great depression,
Thank Ronald Reagan.
But Israel somehow comes before all of that because …
"…profit can only be secured by killing brown people.
“Also, when you let Americans die from poor infrastructure, it just makes some of them work harder in order to provide for their families, so there is no pint changing it.”Just a reminder, $18 billion is around $56 per US citizen.
And a second reminder, that a direct war against Iran (via Israel) or Russia (via Ukraine) would cost probably two orders of magnitude more money than fighting them via proxy like what’s currently happening.
Proxy wars are cheap and do a lot of damage to our enemies.
The only country in this conflict who actually wants the conflict is Israel. It’s quite clear Iran has been doing it’s best to hold back for the past year to avoid escalation. They don’t want a war any more than Americans do.
Iran doesn’t want a war on their own territory, they’ve been happily sending weapons and money to Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis to continue the fighting elsewhere.
If that were true then they would have entered the Israel-Gaza conflict and tried to keep it localized to the region. They haven’t because they are trying to stay away from that and not escalate it into some kind of regional war.
What happens when the proxy in the ‘proxy war’ goes against the interests of the more powerful country?
What happens when the ‘more powerful country’ ends up doing the bidding of its ‘proxy’ because of domestic political concerns and how political bribery has embedded itself in the nation like a swollen carbuncle?
What happens when the ‘proxy’ starts doing damage to our other allies, our international reputation, and gives us nothing back in return?
What happens when this has been going on for 40+ years?
Think we, not our enemies, have gotten the shit end of this deal. Only Israel sees net benefit.
Does Iran have functional nuclear bombs yet?
The proxy war is working just fine. People just don’t understand the goal.
Does Iran have functional nuclear bombs yet?
Not for lack of capacity. Not really sure why you think Israel intermittently dickwaving with Iran is preventing them from pursuing nuclear weapons, but they’ve spent the past 20 years or so continually increasing their capacity to the point of “We can make nuclear weapons in a very short amount of time”, so apparently the proxy war ‘working just fine’ has very little to do with restricting Iran’s access to nuclear weaponry. Or else the ‘proxy war’ is a total failure. Your call.
It’s estimated they have access to enough material for 3 weapons if they were to try to build them… and they’d be completely untested.
It’s working just fine.
Israel isn’t just dick waving, they’ve done everything from assassinating scientists to blowing up centrifuges with a targeted computer virus.
And it’s not working since again, Iran has nuclear capacity and actively chooses not to use it. I don’t think the proxy war with Israel has anything to do with them not having enough material.
Iran doesn’t want nuclear bombs. They’ve been very clear about that, and while it might be posturing the reasons they stated make perfect sense. Being a potential nuclear power already gives them all the nuclear deterrent they can hope for without a large scale nuclear program that would get them bombed by the West.
I get your point on Russia but Iran? War with the US is the absolute last thing Iran wants, which is clear from their foreign policy decisions for the last… Forever, really. America has problems with Iran because they won’t do what the US tells them to, not because there’s any risk of Iran starting a war of any kind.
America has problems with Iran because they won’t do what the US tells them to, not because there’s any risk of Iran starting a war of any kind.
There is absolutely a major risk of Iran starting wars of several kinds. The difference between Russia and Iran is that the Russian government wishes to see the US cratered to give it and its allies free reign to do whatever horrific shite they please. They actively desire a diminished US on the world stage and domestically, both on ideological and strategic grounds.
Iran, on the other hand, just wants to play its shithead proxy war games in the Middle East against the Saudis and Israel. If the US had no interest in backing those two, Iran would be indifferent to the US except insofar as we can be used as a boogeyman to tamper down internal dissent (a technique that has become less effective in recent generations).
Regardless of whether we have any legitimate business in backing Israel or the Saudis, or in trying to prevent destabilization of the Middle East, Iran very much would be picking fights absent the US, just as it is with the US present in the region. The Islamic Republic is not some isolationist or benevolent state. They’re as bad as the Saudis (who are constantly picking proxy war fights across the Middle East).
Oh shit I braintarted that sentence; I should have added “with the US”. With that said, I agree with pretty much everything you said so allow me to nitpick a bit.
First, I don’t see Iran starting any direct wars with anyone when their proxies are willing to do all the work for them. This is a common tactic in the region because it works, destabilizing effects on your surroundings aside.
Second, I don’t think the US is trying to prevent the destabilization of anything. If anything an unstable Middle East is in their interests to the extent it doesn’t cause a refugee crisis for Europe.
Third and last, while Iran is definitely pretty bad, I think they’re one genocide and a few hundred thousand slaves short of being as bad as Saudi Arabia. Again, I’m no fan of them, and weaker Iranian influence would be good for the Middle East as a whole as long as it doesn’t lead to (or be caused by) stronger US influence, but Saudi Arabia is just that evil. Iranian is a more typical dictatorship vying for local hegemony.
Don’t know that they’re actually short the genocide, considering Iran’s backing of Syria, and the US definitely has an interest in a Middle East that is not in open war because of the effects of instability on international trade and the domestic political blowback from that, but otherwise I think we’re in agreement.
Don’t know that they’re actually short the genocide, considering Iran’s backing of Syria,
Oh shit you might be right, but does Assad have any genocides under his belt? I thought the worst he did was gassing his own citizens.
the US definitely has an interest in a Middle East that is not in open war because of the effects of instability on international trade
I was thinking unstable as in unstable dictatorships dependent on US support to keep their citizens down ala Egypt. I agree they generally don’t want open war in the region.
Oh shit you might be right, but does Assad have any genocides under his belt? I thought the worst he did was gassing his own citizens.
There is a very strong ethnic component to the ongoing civil war. There’s been a lot of ethnic cleansing and massacres supported by both sides - but obviously, as we’re discussing the Syrian government, Assad’s government being the important genocidal actor in this conversation. Iranian-backed Shi’ite militias have been… particularly vigorous in this.
Politicians need to be honest about why they do things. Let people make up their minds based on actual politics instead of false narratives.
Politicians need to be honest about what they’re afraid of happening if they don’t support Israel.
Citizens need to be educated and informed. That shouldn’t come from politicians.
This is exactly what they want. Put it on the citizens who are struggling to make ends meet and take care of their families to find time to research politics.
As a leader of the country it is your responsibility to inform the people about what you are doing and why. It behooves politicians to keep the people in the dark.
There is no pride in having to do extraneous research in order to understand politics. You should expect more from your leadership.
That’s nice, neither Iran nor Russia cares about the US nor wants to attack us, neither ever did until we started attacking them preemptively.
I, as an American citizen have no enemies, neither do you. If the US government has made enemies, and it has, it did so without my permission, endorsement, or allowance.
That’s nice, neither Iran nor Russia cares about the US nor wants to attack us
Someone hasn’t been paying attention.
Yeah, you. Why does Russia want trump in office? To leave them the fuck alone. Why does Russia openly want a weaker US? The same reason 140+ countries want a weaker US, so they get left the fuck alone.
The US has conducted hostile military operations in over 100countries over the last 30 years without declaring war once. If Russia did that, we’d nuke them. Fuck MAD, we’d go for the nuke regardless at that point.
Everyone outside the EU wants a weaker US for one specific reason. It’s not our " freedom" or way of life or capitalism (ok a lil bit of it is capitalism) it’s the fact we are the most belligerent country to have ever existed in human history.
You’re not special; Ivan wankenstainofsky doesn’t give a shit about you or anything you have ever done or will ever do. They want the US government to stop playing world police just because the American populace is too stupid to stop their own government.
Yeah, you. Why does Russia want trump in office? To leave them the fuck alone. Why does Russia openly want a weaker US? The same reason 140+ countries want a weaker US, so they get left the fuck alone.
Fucking lol
I guess fascist propaganda doesn’t even need to try to be vaguely believable anymore. But hey, anything to cheerlead for genocide in Ukraine, right?
A generic war isn’t genocide, and you people don’t get to coopt the word genocide just because Israel took away your spotlight.
More over… It’s not our problem. We are not the world police. We suck at that job, given we tend to kill 10-20x more civil loans than whoever were supposedly there to kill.
Yeah it sucks Ukraine is getting invaded again it did that a thousand times before I was born it’ll do that a thousand more times at least after I die. You know what also sucks? Homelessness exclusively due to corporate greed. The former we can’t solve, the latter we can and should before temporarily stopping a different country from invading yet another different country.
A generic war isn’t genocide,
Wow, generic wars have hundreds of thousands, by Russia’s own admission, children being ethnically cleansed from a region and deported to the invading country to shore up their own flagging demographics? Generic wars have kill lists of political figures, including LGBT advocates, distributed to the invader’s forces? Generic wars have civilians with their hands tied and shot in the back of the head en masse in occupied territories?
Let me guess - you’re an Uyghur Genocide denier too, right?
Yeah it sucks Ukraine is getting invaded again it did that a thousand times before I was born it’ll do that a thousand more times at least after I die.
Ah, yes, nichevo.
You do have enemies. Many countries would love to hurt you and your way of life. Those countries have shown that they like hurting other countries, they just tend pick on the smaller ones right now. China is attacking Canada economically for example. They’d love to do the same to the US, but currently the cost is too high. If that math ever changes, you will also be attacked.
China is attacking Canada economically for example.
China is doing that because our former right-wing asshole leader, Stephen Harper, locked us into a Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (FIPA) with China for 31 years, and they’re now forcing its usage upon us. Source
Genuinely I don’t think there’s hope for you or people like you. We need to take nukes away from you people immediately. I’m usually for nuclear proliferation since it’s the only way to not get invaded by the us, but wherever you are shouldn’t have that protection until you actually understand what being a victim is.
Such a waste.
All that money could’ve been given to Ukraine instead. What a waste
