Donald Trump skipped every GOP primary debate, but he is urging Joe Biden to debate him while ignoring similar calls from ex-U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley.

"Well, if I were him I’d want to debate me too. He’s got nothing else to do.”

  • MrNesser@lemmy.world
    2821·
    9 months ago

    There is no upside to Biden debating him. Trump will just spout nonsense to get sound bites

  • DogPeePoo@lemm.ee
    2131·
    9 months ago

    Why is Trump so afraid of debating Nikki Haley first?

    What a pussy he is.

        • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
          40·
          9 months ago

          The worst thing for Republican voter turnout is hearing a Bernie Sanders speech. The dude shows up in a coal miner town hall and convinces them all to vote blue.

      • Mnemnosyne@lemmynsfw.com
        252·
        9 months ago

        It’s a shame it didn’t happen…maybe, just maybe, if Bernie had trounced Trump in a debate, there wouldn’t have been that whole Bernie is unelectable/would lose to Trump idea floating so strongly, and it might’ve given him a better chance in the primary either time.

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
          143·
          9 months ago

          It wouldn’t have mattered. The “unelectable” narrative was coming from the DNC leadership. Bernie was polling just fine until everyone started saying he couldn’t win.

          • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
            101·
            9 months ago

            I remember all the networks showing the number of delegates he and Hillary had, and they showed all the super delegates going to Hillary. Not only had they never shown votes like that before, but the super delegates hadn’t even voted at that point. It was all just based off the assumption that they would all vote for Hillary. Thumb on the scale.

            • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
              5·
              9 months ago

              Hillary had bought their support from the beginning. She learned from 2008 that she couldn’t compete in an open field, so she wrangled all challengers before the primaries started. Sanders was the only one who couldn’t be bought.

            • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
              21·
              9 months ago

              Thumb on the scale.

              That’s the whole point of super delegates. The consequence in 2016 being that Hillary only needed about 30% in a given primary to “win” that state.

              EDIT: Curious about the downvote. Superdelegates made up a large enough share of delegate that to win a majority of delegates for a given state she only needed about 30% of the primary vote plus the superdelegates. Do the math yourself if you’d like to confirm. Hell, I’m from a state where Clinton only got about 35% of the vote in the primary, which meant she only got one more delegate than Sanders, who had closer to 51%.

        • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
          5·
          9 months ago

          At this point I see debates as pointless.

          There may have been a time in this country where candidate A would have this plan for healthcare, candidate B would have that plan for healthcare, candidate A calls for more trade with Europe, candidate B favors trade with Asia etc. and issues are discussed.

          These days, there’s one political party and one doomsday cult. I don’t think it’s worth the bandwidth to broadcast.

    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      481·
      9 months ago

      I’ll seriously consider debating you once - no, I’m sorry: IF - you win the Republican Primary.

      Can you imagine how fucking infuriating that would be to Trump?

    • RGB3x3@lemmy.worldEnglish
      34·
      9 months ago

      Oh fuck, please please please let this happen.

      “Since you sat out all those Republican debates, we thought you weren’t interested. Sooorry”

  • paddirn@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1312·
    9 months ago

    He shouldn’t agree to debate Trump on the grounds that he’s not qualified to run for president, given that he plotted an insurrection.

    • neptune@dmv.socialEnglish
      142·
      9 months ago

      I’m not sure it will ever behoove Biden to take a position on this. Last time he was asked I think he answered that it didn’t matter to him.

      If Biden comes out strongly and says he is ineligible, it’s just tempting SCOTUS to disagree, and have all the morons say he is scared of Trump. And obviously he won’t come out and say he is eligible because that would be stupid, counterproductive and wrong.

      • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
        42·
        9 months ago

        It’s not right either. The sitting President shouldn’t use his bully pulpit to put his thumb on the scales of justice.

      • irish_link@lemmy.world
        1·
        9 months ago

        Its a simple thing. No sitting president has debated a primary candidate. Its as simple as that. There have been upsets before in the nomination process so you don’t do it. R or D, its a simple strategy that you just don’t do.

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
        11·
        9 months ago

        Do we keep forgetting that Biden already beat Trump? The idea that he would want some unknown entity instead of the guy he already beat is just dumb.

        • neptune@dmv.socialEnglish
          5·
          9 months ago

          Americans are very fickle.

          “We need change.” *Votes for the guy just fucking shit up 4 years prior

  • Heresy_generator@kbin.social
    1211·
    9 months ago

    He is so transparently desperate to put Haley in the rear-view mirror.

    And he’s already told us what he’s going to do to get out of debating with Biden: He’s going to insist that none of the traditional debates be held and instead they all must be Trump campaign events hosted by his sycophants rather than independently run debates. When he doesn’t get his way he’s going claim Biden didn’t want to debate him.

  • Xhieron@lemmy.worldEnglish
    73·
    9 months ago

    If it weren’t for the fact that this shit has real consequences, I’d suggest Biden should invite Haley to debate the president just for spite.

  • dharwin@kbin.social
    63·
    9 months ago

    No one should ever debate Trump unless the moderator has a “shut the fuck up” switch to cut off the mic. That dumbass has a diarrhea firehose for a mouth, and no self control or manners.

    • Plopp@lemmy.world
      29·
      9 months ago

      I’d prefer it if all candidates had their own sound proof booth. Cut the mic and activate the window blur/block the millisecond they go over time, go off topic, deflect or just spew mouth diarrhea. And make sure it’s locked, too.

    • Mamertine@lemmy.world
      23·
      9 months ago

      And a fact checker that will interrupt blatant lies.

      Trump says things that are incorrect and asserts that reality is a lie.

      • Jeredin@lemm.ee
        4·
        9 months ago

        For far too long people have been under the illusion that politicians try and debate in good faith and to some extent certain politicians do - Biden will spin facts into a better light or down play some issues; that’s politics, right? But Trump is everything bad in politics and perhaps humanity, all wrapped into one. To give that a microphone is bad enough, but to think you can “debate” such a thing, should be someone’s first and last mistake. It’s pointless because there’s no new perspective for Trump to bring to America’s current situation; Biden knows this. In many ways, you either vote against Trump because you know what he is, or you vote for Trump because you believe what he wants you to know; he only brings “alternate facts,” and again, Biden knows this.

  • nutsack@lemmy.world
    663·
    9 months ago

    it’s never a debate. I’ve never seen one that was a debate. Trump would ignore the questions, say edgy shit and get laughs, and basically win

    Biden is right to not platform an insurrectionist

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
      281·
      9 months ago

      Debates aren’t part of the election process, they’re part of the entertainment process. And if Biden doesn’t agree to do the age-old Three Debate monkey dance, the Undecided Voter will grow angry and support the Fun Candidate instead.

      Or, at least, that’s a theory. There’s another theory that debates are dumb nerd shit that nobody who hasn’t already made up their minds watch anymore. And - much as a bunch of Senators and Governors have refused to debate during safe election years - Biden’s refusal to meet Trump on national TV will actually make him Cool and Based.

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
        201·
        9 months ago

        It’s not even “dumb nerd shit” these days. Current “debates” are little more than ways of generating soundbites. The moderators don’t do moderation and they refuse to cut mics for those who aren’t up. It’s entertainment and propaganda/campaign marketing, not debating.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
          3·
          9 months ago

          The moderators don’t do moderation and they refuse to cut mics for those who aren’t up.

          You don’t really need to cut mics when you control the cameras and get to edit this shit in post during the Sunday Morning Talk Shows.

          The vast majority of people don’t watch the debates live. They just get the reactions after the fact.

          It’s entertainment and propaganda/campaign marketing, not debating.

          The future of politics is a new generation of celebrity candidates. And I don’t even know if that’s a bad thing, considering how many of our last generation’s candidates came out of a vat in the basement of some East Coast Ivy League boarding school.

          • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
            51·
            9 months ago

            The vast majority of people don’t watch the debates live. They just get the reactions after the fact.

            I gave up on any of em after getting annoyed at the complete lack of debate in the “debates”.

            The future of politics is a new generation of celebrity candidates. And I don’t even know if that’s a bad thing, considering how many of our last generation’s candidates came out of a vat in the basement of some East Coast Ivy League boarding school.

            New boss, same as the old boss. Hard to say that there will be any difference as, since the embrace of neoliberalism, there’s been virtually zero politicians doing anything more than attempting to look like they’re trying to do anything for the populace but are somehow completely powerless to do anything but help their bribers-erm…“lobbyists” squeeze more out of those that can barely afford anything.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
              5·
              9 months ago

              there’s been virtually zero politicians doing anything more than attempting to look like they’re trying to do anything

              One of the big appeals of Trump is that he grasps at every lever of power he can find and pulls it.

              Nine times out of ten, it isn’t connected to anything. But if you pull on enough shit, maybe a big border wall or a Muslim ban or a repeal of Roe v Wade or a giant bucket of cash falls out and your voters love you for it.

            • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
              3·
              9 months ago

              America has had playboy celebrity politicians since Jefferson.

              And by that I mean politicians who attain celebrity, not the other way round. There’s nothing really “wrong”, per se, with having some celebrity in your politician. It’s when you get politician in your celebrity that we’ve learned bad things happen.

              Celebrity scientists like NdGT and Hawking are considered net positives for STEM, yes?

      • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
        13·
        9 months ago

        you can’t beat trump in a debate really. he will shit everywhere and his supports will guzzle residues. what’s the point.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
          6·
          9 months ago

          you can’t beat trump in a debate really.

          You can. He’s a B-list stand up so you bring your A-game.

          But Biden isn’t a professional comedian. He’s not going to roast Trump in a game of The Dozens.

          what’s the point.

          When you’ve got a friendly press corps, you do a debate and let the media stunt on the opposition for you.

          There’s going to be a 5 second clip of one of them stumbling or mispronouncing a word, and then the next week long news cycle becomes “Does Candidate Have Alzheimer’s? Here’s a dozen Dr. Oz tier talking heads to tell you he might!”

          But when conservatives have their own big, invasive, and professionalized hatchet men teams, there’s a legit fear among Democrats that they will be more likely on the receiving end.

          • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
            5·
            9 months ago

            You can’t beat Trump in a debate because thats like beating a chimp in a hotdog eating contest. End of the day he’s just gonna throw shit at you and you’re just gonna gobble down a bunch of wieners. You won, but at what cost?

          • Furbag@lemmy.world
            2·
            9 months ago

            I have to disagree. You can’t reasonably debate someone whose arguments aren’t based in reality. Trump’s tactic since 2016 has been to use whatever platform that he’s been given to smear and denigrate his opponents at every opportunity and to lie about how all of the problems we face can be easily solved if only he were allowed to do it. When questioned on actual policy matters, he spouts complete nonsense that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, but since it’s a fast paced debate he can make up bullshit and nobody will fact check him. Even if by some miracle the moderators do fact check him, he will turn to attack them and say they are politically biased against Trump, etc. etc.

            It’s a zero-win situation. Trump will never lose points for bad behavior among his base, and he only stands to benefit from the increased exposure. Biden meanwhile can’t score a goal when the goalpoasts are motorized to move backwards at this point and only invites unnecessary risk of flubbing or tripping up, which will be played back on repeat on political talk shows to harm him.

            I don’t disagree that he could totally beat him, but when the opposition is always playing a game of Texas Sharpshooter, Trump only stands to earn bullseyes while Biden is just wasting ammo.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
              1·
              9 months ago

              You can’t reasonably debate someone whose arguments aren’t based in reality.

              The point of a televised political debate isn’t to win your opponent to your side. The point is to establish to the outside viewer that your position and your personage is more fit to the task of governing than your opponent.

              For a candidate who is divorced from reality, this is typically pretty easy. You point out a few things that the opponent disagrees with and that your audience knows to be true. Then you provoke the opponent into saying something outlandish, attack the absurd allegation, and put up a far more attractive countervailing position/policy that people are more likely to believe practical.

              The problem Biden has is that he’s also immersed himself in propaganda. He isn’t willing to accept the rising poverty or the failing liberal institutions at home. He’s backed an ugly unpopular war in Ukraine and a fucking outright genocide in Palestine. His fixation on bipartisanship has left him once again getting Lucy-with-the-football’d on immigration. His slavish loyalty to the banks means he’s back to harping about a balanced budget and gutting popular public services. He’s constantly saying how he can’t do anything as President, while insisting that a future Trump Presidency would be totally unchecked, which didn’t make sense when Obama claimed it in the wake of Bush and now has completely run itself through.

              And he’s OLD. Really fucking old. He’s even more prone to gaffs and flubs than he was sixteen years ago.

              Trump will never lose points for bad behavior among his base

              Trump’s base isn’t enough to win a general election. But “bad behavior” is its own reward when its directed at someone the crowd doesn’t like. That’s what really makes Trump dangerous. If he were to try and tussle with Biden on the debate stage in 2020, an enormous number of people would be disgusted. But now that so many of those people have soured on Biden, I suspect you’d see quite a few of those same voters applaud.

              Even then, the thing Biden really has to worry about isn’t the Obama-Trump-Biden swing voter nearly so much as it is the Ohio or Virginia or Arizona or Georgia voter who refuses to vote for either one of these assholes. He needs to rally his base, regardless of who his opponent is. Trump being an asshole on stage matters far less than Biden advertising a future four years in this country that isn’t just four more years of shit.

          • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
            44·
            9 months ago

            But when conservatives have their own big, invasive, and professionalized hatchet men teams, there’s a legit fear among Democrats that they will be more likely on the receiving end.

            Which is why the Democrats should have put someone else up for re-election, someone who can defend themself well.

              • Kellamity@sh.itjust.works
                2·
                9 months ago

                No sitting president has ever lost their party’s primary

                LBJ dropped out of his party’s primary, and although it was far too soon to say if he would have lost, he faced strong opposition in New-Politic anti-war candidates Kennedy and McCarthy. He is on record as worrying about the primary and it doubtless played a big part of his dropping out

                Kennedy of course got shot, and the more conservative Humphrey ended up with the nomination over McCarthy (or late entry McGovern), sparking riots at the DNC. The situations and systems were quite different, but i think there’s some parallels with Biden/Clinton vs Bernie there

                I think Truman also dropped out rather than fight a tough primary, but i don’t know so much about that

              • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
                11·
                9 months ago

                No sitting president has ever lost their party’s primary. What’s more—and not surprisingly—the ones that have faced significant primary challenges have gone on to lose in the general.

                These days do not seem like normal times to do comparisons with past election successes. Politics seems very different these days, versus how it was in the past.

                It’s one hell of a risk play the Democratic party is doing, not just to their own power as a party, but to the country overall with electing someone elderly that can handle four more years of leadership. There’s a very real chance he could lose as well as win.

      • aidan@lemmy.worldM
        2·
        9 months ago

        I agree, my political theories of what is popular in the general public is based on sigma edits. Say something dumb but put phonk or synth wave music in the background and I will agree with you.

        Edit: I now support Serbian war criminals

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
          3·
          9 months ago

          Edit: I now support Serbian war criminals

          The important thing is that you’re supporting some group of War Criminals.

          Moderate Rebels. Based Chads. Antifa Supersoldiers. Guys firing rockets from Yemen into the Red Sea. Guys firing rockets from Israel into Gaza. Guys driving fertilizer bombs up to the FBI building on Oklahoma. Guys dropping surplus munitions on the MOVE community center in Philly. Guys flinging pipe bombs into abortion clinics. Guys blowing up pipelines in Texas or under the Baltic Sea or anywhere that lets me fist-pump and shout “You fuckin’ gottem, mate!”

          Literally just anything that involves hard looking motherfuckers doing John Wick / Jason Statham shit with the highest body count imaginable.

          Please just promise me that There Will Be Blood.

          • aidan@lemmy.worldM
            4·
            9 months ago

            Exactly, doesn’t everyone know casually killing people makes you cool. Especially if you’re in plain clothes and the footage looks like it’s from the 80s or 90s. I don’t know who shot first in Waco, but I do know who looked cooler, and it’s not the nerds wearing body armor.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
              3·
              9 months ago

              In a war of swag, David Koresh had it and Janet Reno did not.

              Unfortunately, this was a war that involved tanks. And Janet Reno was undeniably a bigger tankie.

  • Telorand@reddthat.com
    45·
    9 months ago

    Oh good. We’re at the “debate me, bro” phase. Love to see it. Lol

    I sincerely hope Biden never takes a single debate with him, because it would be an absolute clown show, and that’s exactly the kind of chaos Trump’s brand thrives upon.

    • OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee
      131·
      9 months ago

      Trump lost every general election debate he has been in, including two against Biden. I don’t know why people forget he’s actually really bad at staying on message and declaring succinct points in response to specific questions, especially when he gets riled up.

      • Telorand@reddthat.com
        16·
        9 months ago

        That’s true, but people in his camp want a spectacle, an entertaining show, not policy plans and actual governance. Putting Trump up there with Biden gives him implicit credence that he’s worth debating, while Biden will be the punchline of his boorish antics.

        It’s true that he would lose every debate point, yet he would still come out on top because of the giant figurative megaphone he would get.

      • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
        10·
        9 months ago

        Because he makes a spectacle and enough sound bites to get the press and his supporters talking.

        He makes noise, they like that he makes noise, so they like him. They dont care too much about what the noise is.

  • FabledAepitaph@lemmy.world
    39·
    9 months ago

    It’s not really a debate when your opponent’s metrics for winning is simply to speak more loudly, more aggressively, and to refuse to shut the fuck up more intensely than anybody else in the room.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
      72·
      9 months ago

      Okay, but that’s basically every debate. Hell, that’s the optimal strategy in a crowded field. Meekly sitting in the back with a pile of spreadsheets that say “I’m right” on them does nothing to galvenize public support for your policies.

      Even then, Biden refusing to meet Trump on stage won’t discourage Trump from doing his whistle stop Beer Hall tour. At some point, I think liberals lose sight of how important big crowds of people cheering at your approach is in a popularity contest. When Biden shows up at an event, he’s greeted by a few dozen angry protesters, calling him Genocide Joe and waving big blown up pictures of dead Palestinian children. When Trump shows up at an event, he’s greeted by a few dozen enthusiastic supporters, calling him the New Messiah and waving big blown up pictures of drowned children in the Rio Grande with “Win One More For the Gipper” scrawled across it.

      Totally different energy at these events. Totally different reception by the party’s base voters.

      If Biden wants to position himself as the “Guy Who Will Protect You From Trump Who Is Worse”, he’s going to have to get out in front of an audience, side by side with Trump, and remind everyone of the distinction. Otherwise, he’s just running in a vacuum as a mediocre President during an economic upswing, and hoping people give him credit for a rising stock market without blaming him for his party’s failure to deliver on any of their major platforms in the last 40 years.

  • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
    39·
    9 months ago

    The guy who refused every debate until now?

    Trump would refuse debates if given a neutral moderator. And I promise if he did a single debate he’d complain it was unfair no matter the outcome.