It’s very frustrating.
What I’ve seen when I bring what’s happening up to family members step one is denial “oh he’s not doing that” step 2 is defend “well it’s probably for the best, kids do yern for the mines”.
Nothing is convincing.
Stages of grief. Most are just getting to denial.
My 90 year old grandma has moved onto bargaining. She’s trying to write a letter to DJT to “warn him about Musk”
Not bad progress, considering I couldn’t get her to budge at all over the past decade.
That’s kind of adorable.
I remember a moment before the election in 2016. A family member was going off on a Trump worshiping rant. I asked them what they thought of all the awful things that come out of his mouth. They responded with, “Oh, he’s just saying that stuff because he likes to get attention.”
I quoted a passage from Luke’s gospel. “The good person out of the good treasure of the heart produces good, and the evil person out of evil treasure produces evil; for it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.”
What happened next was amazing. They kind of paused and stared at their shoes with this expression that, if I could put words to it, would have said, “Shit. He’s got me there. How do I get around this one?” They then looked up, physically shrugged it off; like water off a ducks back. That stopped the rant but I knew that If they had to choose between Jesus and this particular version of the anti-christ, their choice was already made and it wasn’t Jesus.
I’ve been there friend. It is not a fun experience but it was very enlightening. Someday they may see it but it is terrifying to understand how willingly ignorant some of us choose to be.
It doesn’t help that they have literally been programmed by right and far right propaganda that only influences and reinforces that mentality of “unity”.
the media titans know what they’re doing
And Cambridge Analytica
Those are just the easy parts of the equation to blame. The fact is none of it matters as much as wanting to believe what they’re telling you is true. Nobody can fix the hateful parts of those people except themselves. If they don’t then it will express itself in one form or another.
Yes and no. Media gives them all their cues and phrases. Media gives them their weltanschauung.
It’s also defending the cult leader mentality. Breaking with the cult puts you on the outside, and an enemy of the cult. Breaking free of a cult isn’t easy when the cult’s actions are constantly being reinforced and regurgitated by their leader and his media disinformation networks.
I’m a member of a lot of hiking communities on FB. Prior to Trump second presidency, they would blame any kind of problems related to insufficient budgeting to “ sending all money to Ukraine”. Now that he’s the president, and is BLATANTLY cutting budgets to national parks and forests, I see his supporters say “ it’s too bad we donated so much money to the national parks of Ukraine” or “ if Biden did this, you wouldn’t be complaining”, or some version of “ this is necessary, nothing really changed”.
I actually disagree.
There is a tipping point when MAGA followers are forced into situations where they must rely on their neighbour and mutual aid. They’ll be forced out of necessity to interact with people across the aisle who are giving them compassion.
You’re already seeing republicans flipping before that point from the DOGE cuts. Also, the governor of Kentucky is already flipping after their largest purchaser by a long-shot, Canada, took all their booze off the shelves.
The question is, will I have reached a breaking point where I will no longer be willing to help them?
There is a tipping point when MAGA followers are forced into situations where they must rely on their neighbour and mutual aid.
By the time we reach that point, there won’t be an aisle. There won’t be a government.
I think this overlooks how most MAGAs are rural… and when you live rural you already rely on your neighbors. Most of which are also white and the exceptions are ““one of the good ones.”” It’s why they can demonize entire demographics and still feeling like a good person since they’re good neighbors.
They’re not going to stop blaming ‘the others’ for hardships… They’re just going increase complaints about ‘the government’ and how much they pay in taxes.
I grew up in Amish country/farmland and it’s painful to see how stagnant my family has been over the years.
Andy Beshear isn’t a Republican who flipped, he’s always been a Democrat.
I really hope that this is what’s gonna happen.
I doubt it will be noticeable overnight, but at least some of his supporters will be pushed into a degree of impoverishment that inhibits political engagement.
They aren’t engaged now. Anyone who really looks at politics beyond the talking points that are delivered by the right knows how insane the right is.
Lack of citizen engagement makes it easier to blame immigrants and trans women.
OK, I have read some evidence that shows how when a level of impoverishment is reached, people are too preoccupied with day to day and week to week survival to bother with voting or much of any other civil disengagement.
I won’t waste more time on this, I’m not interested in arguing over the definition of ‘disengaged’.
Isnt that what most of his voter base already is?
The fact that they voted means they are not disengaged.
Yours might have just been an offhand comment, but as it might be a genuine question I provided a brief answer.
It was kind of both. I see what you mean now though
Social identity. Hardship together. This is no joke.
I just FaceTimed with a MAGA this week as they industriously cooked a weeks worth of food to freeze. This is an individual who traditionally only defrosts processed crap on baking sheets, despises leftovers, and grocery shops every 1-3 days rather than storing food.
Not this week. Now they’re all about unprocessed foods, cooking to save money, and meal planning in advance. A 180 shift from a week ago. In addition, they’re starting a pantry.
That’s the rough part a lot of Americans need to swallow: MAGA is full of disenfranchised people that would otherwise organize in solidarity for the common good of the working class.
There’s just been so many wedges and fences built up from the Cold War that the ruling class has been able to deflect and distract from progressive policy and maintain power.
Try the Civil War
You’re talking about babies who couldn’t wear a mask during COVID. They have no sense of struggle and no toleration for hardship
They also had their god emperor refusing to wear masks, and political leaders openly denying the disease.
They had support for their grievences.
They won’t get that over the economy. Instead, they’re getting “this is necessary” and “you’ll just have to make some sacrifices for the economy”.
Their God emperor was wearing a mask and taking vaccine shots behind the scenes. He then tells them the opposite.
I even have trouble believing the people that “converted back”. I just think if things change for them and time passes they’ll go back to being Republicans or MAGA.
100%. The people who have turned away from the Republican party have only done so out of a distaste for Trump, and maybe Elon. They are almost certainly not opposed much of what is being done, just how they are going about it, and who is doing it.
Or, they’ve just had their faces eaten by leopards, and are upset that they’re suffering the consequences of their actions.
You don’t get to be a Republican in 2016 or 2024 without being ok with burning the whole system down, with dreams of it being to your own benefit. They just don’t trust the current would-be monarchs to be the ones to actually give them what they believe they’re due.
They’ll just be told that Democrats, immigrants, and trans people are causing the hardship.
Even more so if it hurts the ones they hate even more. If they lose their job but see five children deported, they probably see it as a win.
This is starting to sound a lot like the typical Russian mentality.
It’s more common.
Struggle is a key part of propaganda and cult of personality, all for the “better good”. And if they already are this far, they will keep going
It’s the same playbook as foreign sanctions elsewhere.
The Assads, Kims, and Putins of the world can get their people to rally into a “bunker mentality” which helps prop up their regimes as a grand and noble struggle.
Trump has brought the same energy home. And history shows you can milk it for decades or generations even before something essential craxks.
… until THEY lose their job to the Trumpcession.
Difference is that Trump Term 1 didn’t really impose a cost on them directly. And so far, the idea of hardship sounds alright.
But when they are dumped to the curb at age 66 with social security cuts, half the 401k they thought they had, and even Walmart ain’t hiring…
They need to be eaten by the leopards…
i.e. hardship
The resistance has arrived!
Not every Trump voter is a die hard MAGA, a large amount just don’t pay attention and vote republican out of habit because the media has told them for decades that Republicans are better for the economy or just because that is the party their parents voted for.
Yes, but the number of Trump supporters is dwindling.
They’ve been saying that since Cheeto ran for office the second time and look where we are. 🙄
Social identity is key to survival, so it’s no surprise how resistant people are.
An old mentor of mine at UCLA did a study where they put people in an fMRI machine and monitored brain function when feeling rejected during a digital game of catch. When the other two “players” (NPCs) started only tossing between each other and excluding the participant, the part of the brain responsible for physical pain triggered.
Not being rejected from others around you is so important to human survival that evolution hardwired our brain to feel pain at the slightest hint of being rejected. Other experiments found similar, we forego an awful lot to stay in good graces with our society.
This is true of USA in general though. The state is always attacking people inside and outside its “borders”. But people still genuflect, sing the anthem, “defend the constitution”, etc. It’s not just “social identity”. It’s a nationalist cult.
