• nednobbins@lemm.ee
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    9 days ago

    Thank you for your thorough response. You make some good points. I think weā€™re talking about slightly different topics though.

    Thereā€™s always some explanation to why certain words or grammar forms evolved. Sometimes those reasons are commonly known, sometimes the ā€œcommonly knownā€ reasons are wrong, sometimes linguists argue about the origin, sometimes they have no idea.

    For everyday speakers, the ā€œlogicā€ of immediate usage, is more important than the etymology.

    German speakers are generally aware of the ā€œruleā€ that diminutives are neuter. If you look at this list words, some of them have non-diminutive forms;
    Die Katze
    Der Hund
    Die Ohrlappe
    Two of them donā€™t really.

    ā€œPlatzā€ is grammatically, the non-diminutive form of ā€œPlƤtzchenā€ but it doesnā€™t mean ā€œ(normal sized) cookieā€ (aside: Not to make fun of our Northern friends but ā€œKeksā€ gets around that confusion) ā€œMagdā€ is the non-diminutive form of ā€œMƤdelā€ but girls arenā€™t (generally) ā€œlittle maids.ā€ I canā€™t remember the last time I heard anyone say, ā€œmagdā€ to refer to a living person.

    Also notice that when we strip off the diminutives, the remaining words are no more ā€œlogicalā€. Cats and earlobes arenā€™t inherently feminine and dogs arenā€™t inherently male.

    My usage of ā€œlogicā€ in the context of German grammar, is that grammatical gender is often at odds with both self identified gender and biological gender. German speakers are generally comfortable saying ā€œDerā€ about subjects, that nobody would think of as male. German speakers are likewise comfortable saying ā€œSieā€ about subjects that nobody would think of as female and, ā€œDasā€ to subjects that are very obviously not neuter.

    The reason for contrasting several languages was that I suspect there are different cognitive loads involved in correctly gendering people, depending on language. Many people notice that native Chinese speakers routinely ā€œrandomizeā€ he/she/it. They donā€™t just misgender trans-people, they often just forget which one means which. German speakers are pretty used to playing around with endings to imply additional meaning. ā€œDutzenā€ is often done without the word ā€œduā€. Speakers easily put together the correct endings for the singular and listeners instantly recognize the implication.

    As a final example, Iā€™d offer the sentence, ā€œ___ ist ein fesch__ ___.ā€ I posit that if I insert ā€œDieā€ vs ā€œDerā€ into the sentence, most German speakers would instantly correctly fill in the rest of the blanks with, ā€œ-es Madlā€ or ā€œ-er Buaā€. If you try to say the wrong one it just sounds weird.