UPD 2023-12-05, 09:45: Thanks to first responders. I’ve got better answers than expected, both in constructiveness and mood and no less in an acceptance even if not agreeing on somethings. I will not be answering each and every from this point after, but may occasionally answer some.
Things I’ve learned – we are where we are ;) Belief in federated and etc… is strong here. I wasn’t blocked, banned and (sadly – as I like to kick back) nobody atack’ed me personaly :))). Lemmies-nsfw are not on defensive emotional mode or only right people happened to see my post.
Funny note: hadn’t noticed restored full upvotes/downvotes functionality right away as now it it rightly limited to channel-comunity subscibed readers. I wasn’t subscriber of c/asklemmynsfw, only occasional reader :) – so I had my minute of “wait it’s back? wtf, where?” :))) Thanks to devs and mods for that upgrade.
ORIGINAL POST:
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Got a bit tired of limited content here on lemmy nsfw, same several posters, almost empty chanels (communities), almost none somewhat valuable discussions.
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Then add the lost ability to sort anything by upvotes/downvotes and even if downvotes back, no existing functionality to sort by votes within the chanel (community).
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And on top of that, if you take random (non tech.) user, it’s too hard for them to understand how to begin to use lemmy – I recomend someone, they try it 5-15minutes to get onboard and lose it along the way.
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Jumped recently back to reddit, to check the things – I was among thirst wave of exodus, even removed my (nsfw reading) account there. I installed an app and got back there in 5 minutes (even while creating new account), and right away got it all – plenty of everything and full functionality. // P.S. and yes, I know that all technological diference stuff about distributed versus centralized lemmy vs reddit. That’s not a question.
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From point where my question stands there is no difference between centralized reddit mods moderation (you may call it authoritarism, dictatorship or elite driven *cracy – whatever) and lemmynsf (beeing just one specific server) mods ruling here. It’s one against one, both centralized no more and no less ~ same.
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So whats the deal? I’m begining to lose my understanding why stay on lemmynsf?
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Especially after quite clear hints that readers do not matter much here and it is not for convenience of them at all. Not clear if mods are eager to create env where only posters stroke (jerk) each other or they care about the readers and content self moderation (up to limits set by each channel-comunity rules ofcourse) but to the readers likings, or is this like instagram where some supposedly chatty “influesomethings” constantly spam in their own channels and others either follow, either not to their liking.
P.S. marking this as nsfw, as my question is only about lemmynsfw server and it’s comunity, readers, posters and mods opinions about env and arguments to stay/leave here. P.P.S. numbering each question description point – as each of them could be a separate discussion. I think it will be easyer to discuss it with less emotions, more with arguments and opinions on each or several items separately. ,
P.P.P.(is it enough of P’s :)S. Oh and feel free to atack personaly – I’ll try to enjoy it, but don’t cry then after if that’s your only argument or opinion. ;). Hints on correct english are wellcome, it gladly will be fixed - I’m non native speaker. Thanks.
I think it’s a fair question. I’m only here because I want options besides Reddit for NSFW content. I also don’t think Reddit has done enough to preserve access to NSFW content or third-party apps (and their official app is terrible for me), so I would like to help build other options.
Unfortunately, Reddit is still a much more popular option. People don’t have many good reasons to choose LemmyNSFW for now as long as Reddit still has most things people want:
I would say it’s “hard to choose” Lemmy if you don’t care about having alternatives to Reddit that might be healthier.
It doesn’t get any better though if no one tries to make other options exist, so I hope that posting and commenting will help other people choose LemmyNSFW in the future if Reddit makes more unpopular decisions.
About your 7th Point: I think readers are still very important here. I and others consider lurkers/readers in a few ways:
I think change can be hard, but I hope you can recognize that the moderators and administrators are open to trying something new, just like how using Lemmy is something new. There are even decisions I disagree with, but the alternative of being solely dependent on Reddit is still worse.
From the readers standpoint – do anybody realy care if poster have checked votes he got on a post? Who of the readers care? That is only a posters problem or advantage that his post missed or hit readers likings. Him checking it or not is not taking care about readers, but taking care about his next posts popularity at most. As for mods discusions on readers convenience - maybe they are happening on some other verse, where readers (here on lemmynsfw) are not asked or taken into account by giving a vote. If I’m wrong, corect me by pointing to such public discusion with public votes.
On openess of mods, well … … by me, the lemmynsfw admins, contrary to your saying, did the oposite of trying something new. They tried the same old – lets limit users abilities, lets limit expression of opinions, lets remove downvotes. And the argument is as old as earth – we will make some of you “feel” more secure, let the snowflakes rule it all (at the cost of less freedom of opinions). History of encroaching enshitification is repeating, but now its here, perfectly federatedly distributed oh the irony one. I do not like the smell of that.
If readers vote and no one checks, there would be no point. I just look at what gets upvotes and try to post more of that type of content so that readers will have more posts to look through the next time they visit that they’re more likely to like (or if they don’t, they know to block that community and move on).
The popularity of my posts or the total number of funny Internet points is meaningless to me. I do not need it to be “popular” or “viral”, nor is Lemmy a good platform to try that (especially on LemmyNSFW, which is defederated by some other notable instances).
I personally gain nothing by posting; if anything, I’d rather by downloading more hentai instead of posting it myself. I only do this because I want other people to join me and share content so that I can eventually download their posts myself somewhere besides Reddit, which has only gotten worse at that.
Public discussion with public votes is limited, but readers still retained the ability to comment with their disagreements in the official announcement posts and the follow-up poll leading up to relaxing downvote restrictions to community members:
Re: Downvotes
Freedom of expression is important, and is part of why you and I are here, but freedom cannot exist without some limits. Downvotes were disabled for a number of reasons, but the biggest one I could see was that some types of content get substantially downvoted despite being appropriate for their communities. How can members of that community express what they like if other, potentially uninvolved people, keep downvoting it?
It’s not about “protecting snowflakes”, but instead, just making room for other communities and interests. No one’s asking you or anyone to go love every single fetish out there, just leave’em alone if you’re not interested.
For me, it has been a successful change. Content that fits in the communities I’m involved in continue to see better upvote counts, while content that doesn’t is seeing next to none (or even negative).
Re: Back To Original Topic
In my original post, I cited both reasons to go back to Reddit or stay on LemmyNSFW for NSFW content. I think we both know we disagree on the topic of downvotes, so let’s not get stuck on that. Is there anything else you wanted consider that we haven’t discussed?
EDIT: Accidentally cut out my note about why votes matter and never added it back in. Fixed. EDIT2: Clarified “who of the readers care?”
And on a love or aknowldgement note for all the lemmy posters and mods, in old pirates harsh voice, a paraphrased song for you:
• You are my atention span, my only waste time • You make me vote when posts are gray • You’ll never know, shitheads, how much I read you • Please don’t take my features away
So dont take my features away … or I’ll kick you ;) Be a better reddit. Thanks.
I hear you (or to be exact, I see what you are writing :) ) about you thinking taking care about your readers. Thanks for the content if I have ever stumbled on yours and liked something. Don’t know, can’t check – there’s no such user functionality as to see own or others list of the things user voted up.
Anyway from a stand point of the reader it is still the same old – poster is taking care about current or future engagements thing. There is no option to folow the poster here (on lemmy), so (excuse me my french) shit do I care whose post do I see, I only want to see floated up ones and beeing able to vote up/down for them to sort naturaly by that particular comunities or global likings. The only thing posters can do to realy care about users, that would be do not repeat themselves and not to spam. All other things will sort them out naturaly without a special care.
As for the posts you have pointed to as the discussion with readers posts – well, … the first two are just “let them steam of” type of engagements, without a real vote by everyone. Decision about temporary measures were taken by mods only, they were hastly and single sided (posters snowflakes matter, all others … ergh … lets play for the posters). And I even understand that concern, no content – no readers comming. You have to take care about posters. But I didn’t felt that readers were counted as comunity members at all, this time. It was more of self jerk circle, we post – we matter, you don’t.
As for downvotes only for comunity members – I agree with you. That was my idea from the very start, that if global votes are somehow a problem for the posters and niche comunities, then the local (community limited) votes count is the solution. Hear me? (I mean you see me? :) – posters and comunities interest is taken in to account and readers interest in not taken out of the equation.
As for the freedom limits – If I have wanted another instagram, I have jumped on pixelfed. Lemmy is, or atleast began, as the better reddits alternative (a technologicaly better one) and, lets hope, users and content amount and quality of it all will overgrow them too.
I don’t think you need to know who I am or who is posting (and if you did, you should go elsewhere, as you noted). It’s enough that you and I are thinking about how votes fit in the community aspect of things (aka sorting things out “naturally” without a special care).
I mistook your stance on downvotes as being all or nothing - if we’re both on votes only being for community members (and I’m still open to putting it back to everyone if/when this instance is bigger), then we’re on the same page.
I do agree that it may have been hasty to enact the initial downvote restriction without any broader vote. I managed to get my input in, but I that was only on the ModCoord comm I linked you. There was some additional discussion on Matrix, but I only saw that after the fact. I only visit once or twice a day to post and take breaks when my life is busy, so I was also surprised to see the announcement when I came back. The second vote also didn’t include a “no restrictions” vote either, so I suppose that wasn’t an option they wanted to explore.