Summary
Ontario will impose a 25% surcharge on electricity exports to New York, Michigan, and Minnesota starting Monday in retaliation for Trump’s tariffs on Canadian goods.
Premier Doug Ford warned U.S. governors and vowed to maintain the surcharge until all tariffs are lifted.
Canada has already imposed $30 billion in retaliatory tariffs, with more planned.
Ford also threatened to cut power to the states by April and banned U.S. firms from bidding on Ontario contracts. A $100M SpaceX deal for rural internet was also scrapped in response.
Why are mostly blue states getting punished for shithead? They should be focusing on red states. They’re the ones who voted for this nonsense.
USA is USA.
People outside of the USA will treat you the same as you treat any other nation. Does trumps tariffs only target the liberal provinces?
Canada can’t exactly cut off power to Texas
Can they get the Fed to drop the F35 contract for a European platform?
Just do it please
As an American- Agree. The dumbfucks in this country aren’t going to understand they fucked up, until the pain kicks in.
Except 2/3 of those states voted blue.
It sucks, but that’s where we are at. It’s not like the majority of the Dems are doing anything to actually fight back against this. If blue states get hit too, it might actually get them moving.
Fair point. I just wish they hit more red states.
Same, man. I just wish we weren’t going through any of it, but we have too many emotionally and mentally stunted people over here that have us in this situation in the first place.
Plenty of red outside the cities, though, and if they figure out why they’re suddenly paying more for electricity, it may change a few minds about Republicans.
Of course, they’re more likely to just blame Democrats for it, but one can hope.
Because of cities. NYC and Minneapolis-St. Paul carried their states. The northern parts of both are fairly red. They’re the ones that will feel the biggest pinch
How many of those people have rifles?
It will likely take awhile for this to have any effect. I know at least in my state (ME) the utility needs to give a 30 day notice of rate hike and then that needs to then go to committee within public utility commission, who will basically arbitrate the request for increase.
Consequently, my supplier of electricity is a wholly owned Canadian company…so they’d actually be paying the increase until a rate hike was approved. Also, would a punitive rate hike even be approved?
They have enough trouble getting a 1% rate hike though for building infrastructure.
Edit: Although I’m not up to speed on if the affected states have set rates or variable rates.
On the other hand there are logging trucks piling up at the border on the golden road right now!
Sucks for us. We deserve it.
The same strange dichotomy exists there as well. It’s likely the logging trucks are employed by Irving, pulling logs from Irving owned forests going to Canadian mills. Irving of course being a Canadian company. It really shows how intertwined we are with the Canadian economy and how stupid this trade war is…
Personally I saw this coming and invested in a smallish solar setup last fall. Hopefully build it out this summer to help deal with the energy shock. Also using oil to heat, which is refined in Canada, so long term need to get a heat pump and add more panels.
Any foreigner should avoid visiting US or buying US products to put pressure too.
It is crazy to advocate for it, as I live in US, but this administration needs pressure from everywhere.
Yeah, I’m discouraged to even buy American because Trump and the Republicans have basically turned that into a nationalist policy. I used to love buying American and local, but it feels gross to think that I’m supporting their agenda.
Pretty sure american products don’t have much of a presence outside of the USA because they’re actually low-quality and expensive.
Is that so? In my experience (obviously it depends on the company) American made is, like, one of the gold standards? I’ve never had issue with American made things 🤷♀️
Again, I’m sure it depends on the product, and I may just have bias because I meticulously research just about everything before I buy, so I may just be buying the really good US made stuff, and most other things are crap, idk. Just like Germany and Japan have things that they really excel in; Australia too, etc.
Take cars, for example. Americans don’t export their cars on the same level as Japan or even South Korea because their cars are shit.
I have a friend who used to sell rental car insurance and he’d tell me that it’s the American cars that always break down.
I’m American and looking around my room, the vast majority of products are coming from other nations. My bass guitar. My speakers. My controllers. My laptop. My mouse. My headphones. Etc etc.
Buying AmericanTM is just propaganda for useful idiots. I guarantee you most people who are afraid of foreign products or tout American-made quality are simply talking from a lack of experience. They’re afraid of what they don’t know and don’t want to have an experience that might show them they’re wrong.
US made things that are the best or in a small group of the best:
Hand tools, power tools, machine tools, alloys, plastics, clothing/footwear, hardware, firearms, whiskey, porn, movies/shows, glass/ceramics, camping/outdoor, and all sorts of luxury items.
Affordability is a different issue. There are usually options that are good enough and cheaper.
I mean, I did say that it depends on the product. And based on the things you listed, maybe you’re not the demographic that seeks out the quality items that the US does make? Like hiking boots, for instance: several companies based in the US make incredible boots. Textiles in general as well: usually when a garment is made in the US, it’s a really good quality item.
I also have a good set of screwdrivers made in the US that I use often to restore sewing machines. Cutlery and dishes as well.
These are things just off the top of my head 🤷♀️
Brit here, I make sure to try and pay more attention and avoid American products now. Not that I bought many before, cola is probably the main one when at a pub/restaurant. Now if there is nothing else I want I just get water. So probably a healthier switch.
why is it crazy? what benefit do you see from ‘prosperity’? how much of each of those tourist dollars goes to you? if you don’t have any investment in the system thriving, what reason do you have to not bleed it every chance you get? what of their policies actually provides benefit to you, and how much effort do they demand for what they offer? ask this of your employers, your governments, and every aspect of your society, if you want a world that works for you.
The era of US-Canada being brothers in arms is over. I doubt US will be receiving any favors in the future without something in return. And if Canada chooses to expand their supply chains outside of the US, which they 100% should, there’ll be no coming back to a scale of trade as it exists today.
There is no greater enemy than a friend betrayed
I cut off a Canadian guy I was friends with recently, this guy agreed with everything Trump was doing.
Told him I don’t associate with Trump supporters, even weirder you’re Canadian (and lives in Canada)
He said he didn’t support trump, but reads all the policies front to back and agrees with them.
I said ok, bye and blocked his ass, we can talk again when you get invaded and become 51st state you love him so much.
Wtf is going on?? He had some bullshit reply to everything like he was Canadian maga.
It basically boils down to this: Trump is a lying, racist, rapist.
How do you put trust in anything he says? I can show you 200 lies, with evidence, just in the last week. He loves Putin and himself, gives no shits about us. He’s already broken long existing agreements with other countries, he CANNOT be trusted, no matter how good what he says sounds. His goal is to exact revenge on those that don’t like him or have said something bad about him, his skin is so thin. You don’t “accidentally” rape a person, he is an absolute terrible human being who deserves zero respect from anyone. Fuck Trump in the neck with a metal pipe.
I’ve met people like that here in the UK too. Trump has this incomprehensible charisma for arseholes the world over.
That’s a problem we have globally. Although it might seem like Trump style populism vs Canadian neo-liberalism(with all it’s pros and cons), we’re both purple. You guys just have a bit more right wing red in the dye mix. It’s plausible that Canada elects our own Trump then we can both be stupid.
The only ideology that has a chance at stopping the populist wave is Sanders style social democracy because it addresses the same core issue of wealth disparity. But it doesn’t look like anyone is electing that anytime soon.
Reich wing populism is on the rise, globally.
So, he might hate Trump, but he love the Canadian version.
Living in rural Alberta, I am actually fairly amazed how little I encounter Trump supporters since he’s been elected. If they are around, they keep their stupid fucking mouths shut.
I know at least 3 that vocally supported him during the election and have nothing good to say about him now, and the fact that Smith seems like she’s in bed with him has caused them to re-evaluate their UPC support. Polievre is probably still safe because nobody is voting Liberal, but people talk about how he didn’t push back against the tariffs, and it didn’t reflect well on him.
I know they’re still out there, but there’s an Oh Canada streak that’s pretty deep in rural areas countering Trump’s bullshit.
John Stewart agrees with some of the DOGE objectives.
John Oliver agrees with some of RFKs beliefs.
They’re the Austrian who likes Hitler.
The same forces that created Trump are at work in Canada. And they are supported by US organizations. Have you noticed that suddenly even second tier US politicians have opinions about Trudeau, Carney, and Pollievre? It is the same as Musk in Germany. We are under attack.
Up until a couple of weeks ago, Canada was well on its path to elect a right leaning government. Trudeau has already resigned and his party was in the gutters. So that tells you how majority of Canadians have been feeling. There is extreme false-facts-driven anti-immigrant sentiment going around, imo, propagated by the same media that is doing so in the US.
Luckily, Nazi musk and his orange monkey’s moves have taken off the veil for some Canadians so there is still some hope for sanity prevailing in their upcoming elections.
Eh Canada was on track to elect the conservatives because the liberals have been in 10 years and fptp trends to a two party system.
Someone I know just keeps telling me he disagrees with every policy that’s bad, while also saying he agrees with Trump for 50 things per the 5 he disagrees with.
Anyway that relationship is very sour as you can imagine
You can replace Canada with any other country! Europe and the US aren’t really friends anymore these days.
This read as downplaying Canada’s significance for a moment, and then immediately circled back to the US being the isolationist Pariah state it is becoming
I just hope everyone is learning how easily your country can be owned and controlled by outside interest - if your country is filled with uneducated, incurious, and indoctrinated citizens. We have no one to blame but ourselves as we ask The Kremlin to take the wheel.
Hold up - if there is already a 25% tariff - IE tax - on Canadian electricity, does that mean that there is now another 25% tax on that electricity?
And wouldn’t this have a slight compounding effect on the second us tariff?
Yes, but us postponed their tariffs another month.
Thing that sucks tho, is at this point it doesn’t matter if there’s tariffs or not, since people have started preparing as if there will be. Worse, tariffs get integrated into an economy and are next to impossible to un-do. God 45 is so stupid
I’m certain he’s doing it for the wrong reasons, but it’s nice to see the angry raging conservative attacking a genuine asshole for once.
Honestly he’s even doing it for the right reasons. His country has been economically attacked. Not to respond would just make it worse.
I suspect he’s playing it up for the camera in order to differentiate himself from American conservatives now that they’ve begun turning on Canada. It’s something I imagine we’ll see out of Poilievre as well, because otherwise they’ll quickly become unelectable.
Just remember that they were chums all up until this point, and that’s still damning. Ford supported American conservatives all the way until the leopards turned to eat his face. Yeah, it’s cool that he’s going above and beyond to fight back now, but he still wants Ontario to act like Texas.
Not disagreeing at all. It’s the standard right wing mode of operation, nothing matters until it affects them personally. It should be studied as a developmental disability.
I’m not so sure about Poilievre. Imo he’ll take a more moderate stance against MAGA if any at all. He’s changed his stance recently, similar to Ford, but it felt a bit later and a bit weaker.
Yeah Ford is a raging asshole so he’s loud and combative. PP genuinely just seems like a little bitch puppet so even if he turns on MAGA, I don’t think it will be as loud as this.
No offense but Trump would welcome these on highly liberal Minnesota and New York and be impartial to Michigan. These are not affecting conservative states.
It will affect the customers, who are rural. The states are blue, because of their cities, but the cities aren’t reliant on Canadian electricity. The rural areas are, and they vote red.
Do you really think the Trump supporters will connect the dots?
JD Vance showed how much he cares about rural communities in Hillbilly Eulogy. Rural Americans are just impressionable pawns to Trump and his ilk.
In the past when he refuses emergency assistance for blue states his advisers struggle to make him understand that the affected areas voted for him. Seems to struggle to understand or care beyond how an entire state voted.
To be fair, does it matter if it’s a blue state either way?
Well they are more closely allied with Canada than whatever the federal gov is doing by this point.
Do you have a source on that? I’d really expect they’re all on the same grid.
Of course they’re on the same grid. Most of the US is interconnected. The Eastern interconnect connects everything East of the rockies, excluding Texas
Prices are fairly localized depending on the cost of production at the plant nearest to you. Much of Southern Minnesota is fed by the Monticello nuclear plant, for example. It’s the northern areas where Canadian power generation isblargely used because it’s closer. It’s those places that will have try to get power from elsewhere in the upper midwest grid (if there isbany capacity), or pay the additional 25% tax
Makes you wonder if this is the first phase of what he meant about “blue states completely disappearing off the map” next year.
The states as a whole are liberal, but the rural northern parts are fairly conservative. It’s the northern parts that consume the bulk of the electricity imports
Yes. Unfortunately, it’s a very blunt instrument. The rest of our tariffs have been ultra-targeted, but Doug Ford really wants to do something and this is the main tool he has provincially.
There’s enough rural, conservative areas within those states that would be affected I imagine he’ll have some blowback. How much is hard to say at this point, especially given that he’s still adding and removing his own tariffs all the time.
I’m not entirely sure he would care either way to be fair, but you do raise a good point.
punish the fucking pigs anyway.
Glad Canada is sticking to I because they’re sending a message Trump that they’re not going to fuck around with him flipping the on/off switch on tariffs
I think the damage is done. I hope to never see American liquor in stores ever again.
I’m American I agree. Your country doesn’t deserve our businesses if we have a dictator running our country
We will be happy to come back as soon as America enacts stronger protections to prevent this from happening again and dumps Trump. Nothing wrong the the American people, it’s just one American and one south African than are ruining everything for everyone.
You’re forgetting about the 70 million folks who voted for him. Terrible hateful folks
Add that to the eligible voters who abstained and you have a sizable proportion of the adult population.
There’s definitely a lot wrong with a large portion of the American people.
Unfortunately, the dumbest ~70 million Americans got together and ruined it for everyone.
Trump is just one guy, but he’s the fart filled turd floating on top of a long stream of raw sewage.
What kind of protections though he is in violation of
NAFTA2erm… USMCA that he negotiated himself. Technically what he is doing is illegal, but Republican Congress is letting him do it.Where necessary or convenient, sure. But alcohol for example has so many other options that I see no reason to give them business ever again. Maybe in a few decades.
I haven’t been to BCLs recently but I’m really hoping taking American liquor out means they’ve brought a better selection of our local stuff in cause we have some really great breweries and distilleries in BC and it’s hard to find their stuff.
Exactly – the threat of tariffs – and annexation! – must not only stop, but be refuted forever by a new treaty, signed by the US. Promising both will stop, for good, is the only remedy now.
Trump himself signed the treaty that he now claims is unfair. The US doesn’t have respect for honour, the law, or even reality anymore. They voted in a criminal to be their President, they have no respect for anything except money now.
There is no promise or treaty that will bring this to a conclusion forever.
I’m ok with this and live in one of the affected states.
I like it, but I’m a little confused.
Why does an individual province determine trade policy? Is this normal for Canada?
The deal is between the provincial utility, which provides the electricity, and the state utility. In the USA, the federal government controls most resource rights. In Canada, it’s the provinces. Comparatively, provinces are a lot more powerful than states are. As I understand it.
Yes, and we even have a lot of interprovincial trade issues. Although with what is happening with the US, we are trying to simply cross provincial trading.
Life Pro Tips:
To USA Residents: If electricity is too expensive, you could always save money by shoplifting 😉 (go for the big corporate chains)
you could also consider creating a militant (as in, try to get some artillery) tenant’s union and reclaim your living space from your landlords.
Shiplifting? Settle down popeye
yaRrr 🏴☠️
(sorry my pirate brain must’ve subconsciously took over 😉)
I’m waiting for him to tear up the gd damn Starlink contract that he keeps threatening to do, but hasn’t done.He said he’s ripped up the contact.
Drug Fraud isn’t known for keeping his word.
Drug Fraud is hilarious 😂. I’m gonna use this later.
Ontario has already ripped up a $100-million deal with Elon Musk’s SpaceX to bring Starlink’s high-speed internet to rural and northern communities and remote First Nations.
Article claims it’s already happened!
Thanks for the correction. I’d only seen news that he promised to do that, but not that he had.
Hopefully they actually killed that contract and not just saying it for clout. They better have a plan to still provide better Internet services to these communities.
My wife’s family had to deal with shitty xplornet services for years while living in the sticks. They literally had no internet for weeks and xplornet was like “we don’t see any issues on our end”. It took multiple calls to actually get a tech to finally come out, but then said nothing’s wrong and left it at that, despite no internet still. Xplornet just eventually started ignoring their calls. They got starlink and haven’t had an issue since. It sucks that it’s owned by Elon “the man-child Nazi” Musk, who could just decide to cut off services in Canada. Doesn’t help our own telecoms are dog shit in their own way either. It’s long overdue getting the rural and remote communities access to Internet in Canada.
I’m rural, had starlink but thankfully there are cell towers around so I’ve got a gsm internet now. Fuck that nazi musk
It’s a Brand New Ford!
And Trump cares that these blue states will be cut off why?
Maybe a state like NY votes blue in state wide elections, but they vote in a lot of Republicans for the House in districts outside if NYC
We are blue in cities… a lot of house support for Trump comes from those red NYS districts.
Michigan is a blue state?
No, but the other two are, and New York in particular is a very notable blue state.
Not enough, it should be 100% and another thing if we have a surplus that we sell, why the fuck is electricity so expensive in Ontario!?
Why is electricity so expensive in Quebec? Because fuck the people that’s why 😑
I don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of commerce but I do know Canadians are also getting fucked by Canada. Electricity, lumber, construction materials are artificially expensive as fuck. Since covid the price skyrocketed because of price fixing and no-one did shit and they stated high.
Same with food prices, telecom… I love Justin standing up to Trump, but it’s also true that he’s failed protecting the average Canadian. Corporations have run amok and no-one has stood in their way.
It is expensive (the most expensive in North America *) because it is low in fossil fuel generation AND uses a lot of renewables with variable production.
The only way to keep the system stable is to rely on fossil fuel generation outside the jurisdiction to offset the peaks and troughs that happen on short time scales.
Ontario actually pays the bordering states to take away excess energy, and they can do it because their gas fired generation can act in seconds to balance supply and demand.
The power EXPORT from the windmills costs the ratepayers in the province over $1B a year…
Similarly, many of the hydro projects rely on seasonal foreign demand. For example BC produces a lot of extra hydro in summer season, and there is air conditioning demand in California during those months. Its not as if the province can hold that water and use it for heating homes during winter.
(* because of unreliable supplies, large consumers like industry can’t actually operate in the province because they cannot get reliable contracts… This is about 1/2 million jobs. This is a big part of how Ontario became a have-not province, actually. I had multiple clients from Ontario’s generating sector who told me that they “did not want” to enter power contracts with penalties around outages, so if a car plant loses power they can lose millions per hour, and the power companies didn’t want to commit to anything. All things equal, big factories can move to Buffalo NY and pay half the price for Ontario energy… )
Basically, it’s expensive because of the costs of remote jurisdiction dependencies and the lack of true self sufficiency.
Since Trump wants to complain about the trade deficit, Canada should cap exports to be equal to imports from the US. Poof no more trade deficit.
Just cut off the oil, that would do it.
Alberta makes all their money off oil, most pipelines dip down into the US because Native groups have a fit whenever pipelines attempt to cross certain provinces. Michigan has the same fit about those pipelines, but that’s mostly because ships dropping anchor over the pipelines and the ecological disaster that would occur makes them uneasy. Everyone wants oil, but until the world turns into Minecraft and we learn to send liquids wirelessly, someone’s fucked.
