Thank you for your suggestions!

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I know we’re supposed to avoid politics here, but I think it’s maybe politically neutral to at least say that people, especially from minority groups, should at least be engaged in politics, and the following quote closes out the article: When pressed further for her thoughts about President Donald Trump praising her, Sweeney responded that she was not monitoring the situation closely.

Rose (a member of the LGBT community) was passed over to play an LGBT woman. She was replaced with someone who is not LGBT and has not said anything to defend the community (that I’ve seen) and seems to court approval from people who are anti that community.

I don’t think I would have made that statement, certainly not in that way, but it’s the responsibility of people who have a voice to call out others in their community who do harm. Rose is using her platform to call attention to a woman she perceives as not supporting other woman and her community. I think not being able to call other women out just because they also face misogyny is not the answer. I think it’s always ok to call out the Anita Bryant’s of the world. I do think it should have been done differently, but I’m not going to police the language of people experiencing oppression and expressing their frustration.

Though as a general statement, people should uplift one another is not a bad worldview.

It’s not for me personally, but if both parties have discussed and agreed upon the next step ahead of time, I can see it being romantic. I’m sure there are cases where it’s done specifically for the coercive force, but I wouldn’t write off the whole idea. If a couple met at or bonded over a sporting event, I can see how a proposal at a game would be special. It’s not my taste, but to each their own in my opinion.

Thank you! 💖

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Herland

Overall this was a good read in my opinion. It lulled a bit in the later half for me, but was pretty engaging throughout. It appealed to the luxury gay space communism I strive towards, so it was fun to get lost in that world and essentially have my idealized (I’m not in support of eliminating men obviously) worldview supported and explored by this author.

It was interesting to see that they still had a religion, but just had morphed it to fit their lifestyle. I know this is basically what people have done since the dawn of time, but in my ideal space communism, we don’t need religion or veneration. We all kinda just do what’s right because that’s what’s right. Also notable that virgin birth plays a role in their religion too. I understand the men were hesitant to provide a lot of details of their religion, but you’d think there’d be more exchange regarding that. There’s a lot to be said about the assumptions the men made regarding life after marriage. They didn’t explicitly say anything and are surprised when things don’t go exactly as they expected. Still extremely relatable unfortunately. I wonder if the author added the polygamous nature of the original society because she assumed the marriage tradition would be too deeply embedded in the culture to have fallen out of common knowledge.

I was surprised that a group that venerates motherhood would so readily move back to standard male/female breeding. What if they had a male child? Their whole religion and way of life revolves around the feminine motherhood in a way a male cannot directly engage in. It’s one thing for outsiders to feel excluded, it’s another for a male child to grow up in that. I’m sure he’d be doted on, but there’s something there that was not addressed. I feel as though if this was written by a male I’d assume that had a female written it it’d have been different. But here we are with a female writer envisioning a female only society excited to reintroduce random males into their essentially eugenicsed society. There was no explicit mention of women who were not interested in having children, but I believe they did reference some being unable to, so possibly the inability stems from an unwillingness, but I would have liked to see that addressed.

I am curious as to what happened with the local men that had previously attempted to seek Herland out. Strange that native people were potentially unable to traverse the cliff safely but these men were. Or were they just captured and executed ages ago and they haven’t tried in a long time? Sex, lesbianism, and physical pleasure are also never really mentioned, but I’ll just chalk that up to this being originally a serialized work and needing to adhere to some kind of propriety.

The paternalism of the state seemed to persist in the way that a small group seemed to be making the decisions as to what to do regarding the outside world. Maybe I missed a vote or something, but I would have preferred seeing the inhabitants making the decision to stay isolated, especially as it can be suggested to be the best outcome for their children.

Also interesting that they seemed to have spent a lot of time and likely resources in making a tree they found beautiful bear food. I liked that they had done away with a lot of frivolous personal aesthetics, but were willing to invest in something beautiful that would outlast them. It speaks to a collective interest in beauty that seemed to be a throughline in their way of live in lieu of an ownership of beauty.

I made some notes about the perspective on animals in the book. Nothing particularly coherent, but things like the elimination of predator species. The encouragement of the prey drive in cats since they prey on “pests”, but restricting them from hunting birds. They must have a large rodent population to feed all the cats since cats are obligate carnivores. They also mention the removal of invasive moths. Clearly some things must be sacrificed so that others can flourish, but I don’t think that’s even a big theme, just something of note.

A highlight for me was the centering of older women. They were written of with a lot of respect that I rarely see given to them. The direct acknowledgement of that was also nice. The protagonist explicitly realizing that his society often discards women like this felt like a turning point. They reference a specific kind of aunt-mothering that is part of the cultural consciousness but not often addressed. A lot of cultures use aunt as a term of respect or endearment and you see it used for women in positions of authority in societies like Gilead in the handmaids tale. I like that this shined a light on that position that a lot of women are put in, regardless of if they wanted to be there or not.

I do want to point out that the protagonist somewhat excuses his friend for attempting to rape his wife. I’m not sure if the rape excuse is a reflection of the author or their view on men and this particular mans inability to truly hold his friend accountable. There was also elements of eugenics, and referring to people as savages. It definitely shows its age.

Thelma & Louise

This was a very well written and acted movie, but I can’t say that I enjoyed it. Much of it felt like trauma porn, or as Dandelion aptly put it, an exploitation film. I’m glad it was made, and it is definitely true to much of the female experience, but it was tough to watch.

I understand that the sex scene with Brad Pitt was supposed to seem reclamatory at first, but even in the moment it felt bad to watch. This naive woman was obviously being played, even if he hadn’t taken anything from her, it would have felt like there was an element of him taking advantage of her situation. I understand she’s a grown woman, but it felt manipulative the whole time.

Some small details I really enjoyed were when they were talking about Louise’s eye color. Previously she had closed her eyes when she asked him. This time she covered his eyes. I don’t know if that was intentional or just the most convenient or aesthetic choice, but it seemed a subtle nod to her agency. I liked that the Jimmy farewell kiss was the back of her head and not the side view we often get. It wasn’t about the kiss itself, just about her as a person. It made the kiss feel more personal than had they shown it in more detail in my opinion. I also liked that they didn’t shy away from showing that Jimmy was a bit of a mixed bag. He was violent, and obviously not a great partner, but Louise still loved him and he was trustworthy to a certain extent. It’s nice to see complicated relationships on screen, even if I’d prefer them to not be the case.

Overall it felt like there is no good move for women. Naive and trusting or bold and protective, either will lead to trouble. That’s often what it feels like, but watching it play out like that made me feel more upset than seen. I’m not excusing murder, don’t go do that ladies, but it really felt like they were backed into a corner and ended up spiraling, and all of it, even their spiral, was rooted in men. Even the “good cop” hoping to “help them” ends up being the reason they get caught. If they hadn’t somewhat trusted him, they wouldn’t have called him and given away their location. I’m glad I saw it, but it will be a one time watch for me.

No hate, but I barely made it through the first half of the movie. I’m so surprised to hear it’s a favorite! It’s a technically good film, definitely, but it was so crushingly depressing. Maybe just the state of my country right now has me in a bad headspace, but watching it made me actually upset. Not in a triggering way, but angry. Maybe it was triggering, just in a different sense than I’d normally use it? I can’t imagine wanting to watch it again, but I’m glad we were able to watch a favorite of someone’s!

Great point about how even good men wanting to help can’t singlehandedly fight a system.

Thank you for your perspective! I haven’t posted my comment yet, but I made a note while watching that I felt like so much of the movie was just trauma porn. Your use of the term exploitation film rings true for me. The last bit less so, but as stated in the film, even their liberated actions are the result of trauma.

I don’t know a lot about Ridley Scott, but interesting for you to note that you saw parallel scenes in his other works. I do agree about the patriarchal presence in the movie. I was struggling to put it into terms, but the detective wasn’t really the audience surrogate and felt out of place in a way that I made note of it. I understand wanting a b plot, and it wasn’t done poorly per se, but it was a bit paternal in a way I didn’t enjoy.

I generally don’t read male protagonists by female authors, so it was really interesting to see her conception of how a man might approach this. I also found her characterization of each of her male archetypes and their respective relationships quite interesting. I totally agree that having it from a male perspective actually aids in centering women in this novel. Interestingly even at the end, her perspective character is still sympathetic towards his friend despite his actions. I’m not sure if that is a “statement” or the author having at least partially internalized that attitude.

I may be an optimist, but sociology has suggested that in times of crises people rally and show up for their communities. I know it’s hard to envision, but I really hope that the better part of our nature really would, and really does prevail. I will say that the elimination of predator animals for the sake of prey animals is an interesting take on vegetarianism and the hardest thing for me to imagine. I feel like having done that in a novel where men have also been “eliminated” says a lot.

I agree that the virgin births were a little silly, but I think it encouraged an interesting parallel with some religions. I don’t think religion was the main theme of the work, but I think it was a large enough piece of it that I’m willing to allow it to be used as a plot device.

I read the wiki page after finishing and that’s how I found out that it’s part of trilogy. I feel bad for dropping people in the middle of it. Let me know how that one is! I’ve had the yellow wallpaper on my list forever and this definitely encouraged me to move it up higher in the stack.

It definitely gives off overall generic white feminism vibes, and certainly has a specific view of what that means (motherhood and dedication to others). I think this relates back to the religious aspect of the work. This idea of the mother-love central driving power of the religion is doing a lot of heavy lifting and went fully unexamined, which is interesting considering the depth the women questioned the men.

I really appreciate your perspective! Thank you for sharing!

I’m also really sorry to hear this is happening. Dandelion already gave some good advice, but depending on your state/locale you may have an urgent care (not an ER) or a nurse phone line. Not promoting specific ones, but CVS and Walgreens are both big names that you possibly have by you that will have a same day, or near same day option. Other urgent cares are more localized so I do t know what they would be called in your area. I believe both CVS and Walgreens ones take Medicare patients. Depending on your Medicare you may also have a phone number to call where you can speak to a nurse and explain the issue. If you’ve had it before they may be able to get you medication without you going in anywhere. Sorry if you’re already aware of these options and if these are not actually helpful, I just know people in my life that weren’t aware so I thought I’d at least mention. Best of luck!

Thank you for YOUR efforts! Glad to see the interest is still here!

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If you want, feel free to go back and post your thoughts. I’ll still read any new top level comments. Or you can just read and/or respond to other people’s comments if you like! I included some highlights at the end of this post, and maybe next time I’ll have to feature them more prominently, but Dandelions comment actually made me reassess my feelings on the movie a bit, so definitely some nuggets there imho.

Definitely no pressure to participate every month. Sometimes things get busy, but I’m looking forward to reading your thoughts this month if you end up participating!

Agree all around!

Lol, so valid. I really don’t know enough to make generalizations or anything, but at the very least it seems like a helpful framework for acknowledging our individual limits and encouraging the acceptance of our boundaries and possibly conflict complexity, which I think is very healthy. I really appreciate you sharing your perspective and understanding, and I promise not to be passing sweeping judgement on a whole philosophy based on this brief conversation lol.

What a well balanced sentiment. I responded to Dandelion elsewhere in this thread, and though it was not explicitly about Daoism, this conclusion was present there as well. This concept of not being responsible for or antagonistic to the darkness and learning to navigate through while acknowledging it seems to be the only way forward at times, but the idea that no matter what we do, as either individuals or a society, we will not be able to excise the worst of ourselves still feels unsettling. For now, acknowledging and working toward being better has to be enough, but the thought that it will never get better on the balance of it seems defeatist. Maybe I am approaching from the wrong place here, but that doesn’t seem like a hopeful philosophy as much as a subsistence philosophy. Not that philosophy needs to be hopeful or inspiring, but it makes me sad to think people wake up every day and do their best while legitimately believing things on the whole will not or cannot improve. If I didn’t think that doing my best was contributing not just to balancing my worst, but to actually improving myself and the world, I don’t know if I’d be able to be so cheery about it. And I’m not particularly cheery about it to begin with lol.

It was likely an issue on my end interpreting. I took the stereotype thing as a critique on the concept of the film being feminist, which I should not have done considering your recent comment. For what it’s worth, I think having some stereotype conformity and nonconformity makes the characters more realistic to me, but I can see how it can seem more like they’re just a madlibs of stereotypes than real people to others.

I totally agree with your idea that it likely depends on who is talking about it. Now that you bring this up I feel like I need to add context to my statement. I think you are right to say it’s not a “feminist” film. I think it qualifies as a “feminist kids movie” because my personal bar for feminism in children’s media is quite low, but now that I think more about it, it really needs that qualifier “for a children’s movie”. I appreciate you adding that perspective. Using Miyazaki as a standard is so smart. Those works are definitely thoughtful explorations of characters that feel earnest in a way that defies framing as anything but honest. I am not sure how much commercialization affected the story as much as just the people writing it, but there’s definitely an element of high tempo frantic excitement that is common in a lot of more commercial works whereas Miyazaki definitely wants you to sit with his characters. I went on a Lars von Treir kick years ago and came away from those films with a completely opposite perspective! Lol. I will have to watch them again and get back to you if my feelings have changed since.

Totally valid reasoning, not that you needed me to say that. The good place is an absolute gem. The only show I’ve rewatched in its entirety.

it is so much worse unfortunately than a single child being tortured - and even that seems too much

That resonates so deeply with me and likely with so many others here. Very well put.

Wow. I was addressing your comment as I was reading it and then I got to the remainder and quite frankly I don’t know how to respond. The lengths you went through seem so profound. I’m sorry that the world is the way it is and has caused so much hurt in your life and the lives of so many and that it will likely continue to do so. For what it’s worth, I think settling on a healthy acknowledgement of the issues and some personal responsibility, without allowing it to consume you is the best way to go about it. The line is different for everyone, but it seems like you have found or are finding yours and that’s so important. I really respect your ability to evolve and grow to be better for those in your life and around the world. I really believe that if enough of us had that mindset real change could happen, and all we have to do as individuals is to embody that and demonstrate it for others. Thank you for that reminder.