As per .world worldnews mod, no discussing naughty stuff like jury nullification.
While this post is blowing up, here’s the book referenced by the shooter:
Delay Deny Defend - Why Insurance Companies Don’t Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It
By request: Full, uncensored video of the shooting. (Fucking obviously NSFW)
Nullification is your duty when the law is unjust. Also not illegal
Exactly.
Juries wouldn’t work if it didn’t exsist.
In practice, sort of. It’s a symptom or side effect of two other really good ideas:
-
A jury cannot be in any way punished for any verdict they reach.
-
One cannot be tried for the same offense twice if it is acquitted. Technical term for this is “double jeopardy.” A guilty verdict can be appealed but a not guilty verdict is absolutely final.
The shapes of these two principles are such that they cannot interlock in any way that does not leave room for jury nullification.
And saying those words in jury duty will get you tossed immediately from selection lol
-
wtf
Jury nullification is legal.
Yep. Mods power hungry just like on reddit. Federated platforms exist to not have to deal with this BS.
You need to lie to the judge under oath to do it. There simply aren’t consequences, but it is very much illegal.
Wrong. They try to filter out people who know about jury nullification, but the act itself is not illegal, as you do not have to have the knowledge to accidentally do it anyway.
That seems pretty unfair to filter out people who know about it, it’s basically filtering knowledgeable people.
There’s no basically, that’s literally what it is
“They” being the state.
Just to be clear, one of the standard questions to ask a potential jury is “you must be able to render a verdict solely on the evidence presented at the trial and in the context of the law as I will give it to you in my instructions, disregarding any other ideas, notions, or beliefs about the law. Are you able to do this?”
If you know about jury nullification, with the intent of using it, then you need to lie under oath to get past this question.
The question was taken from the New Mexico US courts
Are you able to do this?
Ahead of time, I could answer truthfully that I am able. I don’t have to say “but when the time comes, I may choose not to for any reason”
I mean that may be “the truth”, but it is purposely not “the whole truth”. Which is a violation of the oath. The only way jury nullification is allowed is if a jury independently decides not to convict, because then jury is unbiased in deciding that the law is wrong or shouldn’t apply.
Again, if you are selected for jury duty, and you already have decided you will ignore the law to avoid convicting the criminal, then there is no way you can make it past the selection without lying to the court.
I think then talks about jury nullification may be changed in such a way that no legal matter is discussed, but a jury is still inclined to act such that nullification happens, and that will be in accordance to the phrasing of the oath
I was a juror in two different trials and don’t recall ever being asked about my beliefs on jury nullification. It’s been many years though.
Edit: it seems like I was wrong. Supposedly, jury nullification is not legal in my US state.
Edit 2: perhaps it’s still not completely settled in my state yet?
You do not have to lie to the judge. There is no lying to the judge. If the jury decides to ignore evidence and nullify, the judge knows exactly why, and there’s nothing they can do about it.
Why are people downvoting this? Jury nullification itself isn’t illegal, but committing perjury definitely is, which is what Maalus is pointing out
Because Maalus keeps insisting on treating them as one and the same.
I consider human life sacred
Like the lives of those cut short by denying treatment so CEOs and shareholders can make more money?
only God may judge us
Oh, fuck off. If God exists and actually cared, he/she/they would have “judged” the guy a long time ago for introducing needless suffering and cruelty.
only god may judge us
Is a great argument for jury nullification. Because that will allow for god to decide the shooters verdict.
It’s a TOS violation to discuss one of the very real and legitimate responsibilities you have as a juror?
Like, nullification is a thing because it’s very much the absolute very very last defense against bullshit laws being used against people by a corrupt judicial system.
It’s a moral imperative and something anyone sitting on a jury should understand and be willing to use.
What an absurd take, especially since it sounds like it’s all the .world admins having it.
It’s likely not actually a TOS violation, that person commenting is almost certainly talking out of their ass, likely to try and push their own agenda and make people comply.
theres no faster way to get kicked out of the selection process than mentioning it.
if you want out of jury duty, mention jury nullification and you are out of there.
… and in jail for contempt of court.
If all one had to do was utter ‘JN’ to get out of JD for free nobody even slightly inconvenienced would ever serve.
In reality, they dance around the fact. Ask you questions designed to get you to admit you have no ‘valid’ reason to nullify if you did, at which point you are either guilty of lying under oath or contempt of court.
You have to be firm in your convictions and hold your ground with a valid justification if you are going to try using nullification awareness to weasel out of jury duty because the judge will press, and press until they either think you’re a true believer of a valid reason, or are just trying to shirk your duty.
Link me even one case of that happening.
If they think you even might support nullification, they don’t want you on the jury. They wouldn’t risk that you’re joking or trying to get out of serving.
Here’s a particularly outrageous example. If you watch the entire video he goes on to describe a few more examples where the entire jury must be aware of what JN is but are still acting as jurors.
Those are cases of attempting to encourage specific juries to nullify. You’re not gonna be held in contempt for revealing you support jury nullification during selection.
held in contempt for revealing you support jury nullification during selection.
Yes, you will. If you flat out say “I support Jury Nullification” during voir dire the judge will consider it flagrant contempt for the courts and deal with you accordingly.
What will actually happen is you will be asked a vague question that skirts the issue like “do you have any beliefs which would render you unable to convict or acquit based on the evidence alone?”. If you answer in the affirmative an explanation will be demanded at which point what will your answer be? “I support jury nullification”, same deal. If you have an actual belief that gets in the way like say you abhor the death penalty they will say things like ‘case is regarding a traffic ticket, your concerns do not apply. any other reasons?’. Their goal being to show that any of your reasons either do not apply, or are insufficient in the judge’s eyes for you not to do your duty. At that point you’d still be a juror and if you do nullify for whatever reason there’s nothing they can do afaik.
You’re dreaming if you think you wouldn’t be punished for praising jury nullification in front of a judge and an entire slew of potential jurors during voir dire, when someone was handing out fliers outside the court building was convicted despite no court being in session, no actual juror receiving the pamphlet, and it held on appeals.
TBH you want evidence, the evidence is the court system still functioning because if what you said was true it would collapse in on itself.
Yes, you will. If you flat out say “I support Jury Nullification” during voir dire the judge will consider it flagrant contempt for the courts and deal with you accordingly.
Source? Cause this is some wild shit.
This is pure bullshit. And that’s not just my opinion, Cornell Law School explains jury nullification on their website, and lists multiple examples of it. Juries in the United States are protected, and you cannot be held responsible for refusing to convict. You will not be punished for it, and if you are, then your rights have been violated and you have a case to sue the government.
Lemmy.world is a centrist instance. Liberals don’t like the idea that people can do something that the donor class can’t prevent.
How is jury nullification against .world ToS? It is part of the law! Or more specifically it is literally created from the absence of a law, to allow a fair trial by your peers.
Courts don’t want you to know about jury nullification but it is not illegal. It is a required part of the judicial system.
so trying to prevent people knowing about is is more akin to trying to prevent people from knowing what rights they have?
Really unfortunate this dipshit runs a relatively popular instance.
The root of the issue is that being an admin is hard work, with consistent time commitment, and it falls to whoever has enough spare time and just feels like doing it. So there’s no real “standard” like there would be at a job. If you annoy the other admins, you’re probably going to be gone, but other than that, they need you to be there, because finding other volunteers to take over for you is going to be difficult.
Here’s what I don’t understand: The social side of LW administration is clearly off the rails. I’m not even trying to say they’re “bad” or power tripping or whatever. They’re just amateurs jumping into what is at the best of times a difficult and neverending balancing act of good judgements, and it makes sense that they’d get it wrong sometimes. But how is the back-end admin team killing it to such a degree? I cannot imagine that running a service like lemmy.world is easy. So… how did they manage to attract people who can succeed at the objectively hard challenge of keeping the whole thing humming along, pretty successfully, when the quality of people they can attract to the much less objective-qualification-needing side of leading the mod team and the social side of admin is so haphazard?
I never really thought about it before, but it’s an interesting question now that I look at it.
they can attract to the much less objective-qualification-needing side of leading the mod team and the social side of admin is so haphazard?
Most people don’t want to mod news and politics communities.
lemmy.dbzer0.com is supposedly run by an anarchist, just saying…
Also we got booty (no not that booty, treasure!) !piracy!piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com (inaccessible for lemmy.world users)
Sail the High Seas!
Only god may judge us? Sure, which is why god sent a fucking assassin.
I want to find a new home instance, just randomly picked this one when I signed up moving from reddit.
Anybody got any suggestions or one’s to avoid?
Personally I’d recommend picking an instance that at least has Hexbear and Lemmygrad blocked, as that removes 95% of the toxicity you’d see on the platform. You can check what an instance blocks by scrolling to the bottom of their main page and clicking the instances link.
Sopuli.xyz is a really solid medium sized general instance, with good admins and an updated lemmy.
Lemmy.cafe is a nice small instance (not much local activity, so you’ll need to rely on the All view and your subscriptions for that one).
If you have affinity with Anarchism (or environmentalism or sailing the high seas), Slrpnk.net and lemmy.dbzer0 are both excellent.
But if you’d like a more themed instance that appeals to a particular interest, by all means go for that instead. https://lemmyverse.net/ or the instance finder tool at https://join-lemmy.org/ are good places to find one. :)
You can block those on any instance.
Unfortunately an individual blocking an instance only stops posts from those instances from showing up, but you can still see comments and responses from the users of the blocked instance.
Ah, I blocked them and then haven’t seen anymore of them, so I assumed that blocked me from seeing their comments. Guess I’ve just been lucky.
Your instance is
fullydefederated fromthemLemmygrad.No it isn’t.
Ah, quite right! My mistake.
https://lemm.ee is generalist, second biggest instance, cool admins, federated with almost everyone
Lemmy.zip is a bit more techy, but very transparent: https://lemmy.zip/post/27236300 also federated with almost everyone
If you look for instance defederated from hexbear and lemmygrad, there is https://sopuli.xyz/ and https://discuss.online/
https://reddthat.com/ is nice too, but disables downvotes
https://lemm.ee is generalist, second biggest instance, cool admins, federated with almost everyone
try discussing that german regime is ran by nazi nepo babies and see how long you last on there…
Huh?
Mark Felton Productions youtube channel recently covered the topic and it is a good place to enter the topic.
TLDR: much of german oligarch class made their money from slave labour during third Reich, that money was then used to rebuilt west germany and their children are currently ruling it. Old Germany families were also were able to maintain ownership of key industrial enterprises, zero punishment.
Allies allowed this to happen specifically, US, UK Swiss and Sweden with some further places like Argentina and Egypt.
Reddit mods esp in EU focused subs will also ban these discussions, it is not just lemmy issue.
And where have you been silenced om this topic? Or someone else if that’s the case.
sunzu2
“and constantly accusing an entire political party of being “regime whores””
you are misrepresenting my thesis but banning me… 1 month ago WrenFeathers
You admitted to shitposting. That’s why you’re banned. PoliticalMemes isn’t a shitpost community.
And nothing was misrepresented. If you misspoke, the onus is on you to correct it. But you leaned into it- multiple times. 1 month ago sunzu2
“You admitted to shitposting. That’s why you’re banned.” thats not why but that’s ok. i clearly state on multiple occasion within the thread that both sides are regime whores. you are misrepresenting my position… 1 month ago WrenFeathers
That is absolutely why you’re banned. I’m the one that banned you. I get to qualify it- you don’t.
Take a time out and chill. 1 month ago sunzu2
https://thebrainbin.org/m/politicalmemes@lemmy.world/t/334461/What-Undecided-Voters-Look-Like-To-Everyone-Else-Dropout/comment/3373455#entry-comment-3373455 1 month ago WrenFeathers
You’re free to appeal if you think his was unfair. But as of now- it stays.
And if you think I’m being biased, check the mod logs. I remove uncivil comments/posts only. Regardless of political bias. And if you knew how much of your stuff was reported that I/we left as is because it didn’t break rules, maybe you’d see things more evenly.
Come back in a few days and follow the rules. 1 month ago sunzu2
I am fine with a ban, but i don’t like having my core position being misrepresented by a mod after a ban. the regime whore term is not specific for either party, it covers both sides. your comment implies that I am siding with one party and i can’t correct the record. it aint right.
My staff is reported because people don’t like the thesis and the delivery style, which is the entire point of the exercise here. People won’t like their opinions challenged, especially from unexpected vector. I don’t think that it violates actual rules with few exceptions (back and forth with people who do name calling). People are reporting me to censor the content so that’s something to consider from a mod perspective.
Finally, shitposter is term dating back over 20 years, people regularly admit being shitposter. I have extensive posting history on this handle. I did not post in bad faith as suggested above. This is my thesis but I do keep it fun when off topic.
Either way, appreciate the time and the response. 1 month ago WrenFeathers
Trust me, I know why people report.
Both sides if this debate report things they don’t like. And i HATE having to say “both sides.”
You broke the rules.
I don’t enjoy removing comments, let alone users from this community. But the rules are there for a reason.
And yes… There are grey areas to them which in this, I try and exercise leniency.
If it helps- in the future, prefix your comment with things like “I think,” or “it seem to me that” so that it is phrased as opinion and not fact.
“It seems to be that liberals are ‘regime whores’”
I may totally disagree, but I cannot remove an opinion so long as it remains civil. 1 month ago sunzu2
So still no correction to the commemt misrepresenting my position? 1 month ago WrenFeathers
I removed your comments based on what you said, not what you intended to say.
Case closed. 1 month ago
It seems they’ve actually been more than fair with you.
Could you screenshot stuff because this was just illegible.
Reading this from lemm.ee right now! I’m also a big fan of https://sh.itjust.works/.
I’m a bit leftist, am I a good fit for shit just works?
If by leftist, do you mean actually leftist, or do you mean that you think the profits from imperialism should trickle down to white people in the imperial core?
The leftist instances are: lemmygrad.ml hexbear.net and to a lesser extent lemmy.ml but the latter is federated with more instances
hexbear is objectively the best instance once you learn how to not be a liberal on there. best community, best vibes, best memes
I notice you’ve gotten suggestions to steer away from them because of toxicity. They’re toxic to transphobes and imperialists. People who consider themselves on the left get absolutely enraged at being criticized morally from the left. Look behind anyone complaining about them and you’ll realize they said some wild shit and got rightfully scorned.
“only God may judge us”
It’s okay, as an atheist, I only recognize the moral authority of humankind, so judge away.
More seriously speaking, PTB. It would be one thing if the justification was “We REALLY do not want any legal trouble and we are just not equipped to take on any challenges, so we’re playing it safe”, but “i consider human life sacred”? They can fuck off.
Human life is sacred, which is why I’m celebrating this POS no longer being able to abuse the sick to make a few extra bucks.
Give it a day or two for the LW admins to respond. Remember, they’re not doing this as a full time job. This only happened today, and I would expect change on the instance to take more than one day.
Also most of the mods on LW only have one big community. Different communities will have different standards.
What are you talking about? The post is about a LW admin declaring that discussing jury nullification is grounds for banning. Did you mean to reply to something else?
Edit: Not admin, worldnews mod
They’re not an admin, they’re a community mod and they’re talking out of their ass.
Right. I just realised that. So either they know something or they’re making false claims and the admins need to remove him.
Willing to bet it’s the ladder, this would be outlandish if true and would be kind of bad for lemmy.world.
Discussing an actual legitimate part of the law is a no no on lemmy.world
Only when it might give ordinary Americans the ability to prevent corps from taking revenge on someone who stood up to them. That’s not very centrist.
.world mods are all fuckwits.
* admins, in this case.
Edit: Not admins, my bad.
*Not an admin, the user is a mod. Look at their account on their home instance and you’ll see they aren’t an admin.
Image of their account page
Calling out bad behavior from mods is good but please don’t spread misinformation, intentionally or not. As it hurts the credibility of the claims.
Yes, I’ve edited all my posts and comments once I realised my error
Ah that’s good, glad the information has been corrected. I’d also recommend editing the post title to clarify that it’s a mod talking out of their ass, as opposed to something officially true.
Fuck the censors who think they can decide what others talk about!
They keep trying to take down my post where I dox one of the Neo-Nazis from x.
Go ahead and ban my fucking account I don’t give a shit. I’ll just spoof my device fingerprint and continue to dox on a new account.
Cyan Cruz 14008 Echo Ln, Austin, TX 78732
Make Nazis afraid again
Doxxing is pretty bad though, and there’s no reason anyone should just go believing a claim like that.
Not as bad as being a Nazi.
Violence is warranted sometimes. Especially when the future of your country is at stake
Only God may judge us? Which God exactly, you giant fucking DIPSHIT?
My inbox is quite a ride. I keep seeing insults in it and then realise it’s not meant for me
I’m as much of a god as anything or anyone else, and I hereby give you all permission to judge anyone you want for any reason. This applies both going forward in perpetuity, and retroactively until the Big Bang.
