- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- games@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- games@lemmy.world
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Yep, this basically sums up my experiences a couple months ago. I’ve been telling myself since about 2016 that I would save up to go all in and build a solid gaming desktop.
But then there were floods in southeast Asia hindering supplies where I lived. No biggie, they’d recover quick.
Then crypto took off and GPUs and some other hardware tripled or quadrupled in price. No biggie, it’s a fad that will go away quick.
Then COVID destroyed production and distribution of computer hardware. No biggie, gives me time to save up more to afford these new crazy prices.
Then everyone needs GPUs for the AI craze, and prices went up even more. No biggie, I’ll just…cope?
Finally, I was at the point of “Fuck it, I’m tired of waiting. I’m buying a 5080, even if it costs as much as 2 PS5s.”
So I planned it out, made sure I had everything lined up to immediately snag one once they were available. And then day of:
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Nvidia’s store: Never had any in stock at any point.
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Microcenter: In-store purchases only, and stores were given single-digit stock while hundreds of people queued up for days.
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Newegg: Never loaded until their stock was all gone.
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Best Buy: Had a very attractive “Add to Cart” button display for a period of about 10 minutes at random intervals throughout the day, which placed me into queues that all ended with me getting kicked out after a few minutes.
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Amazon: Well, fuck Amazon, but they didn’t have any either.
So then I thought, forget Nvidia. Just because their cards are dropping earlier in the year doesn’t mean it’s them or nothing. I’ll just get an AMD card if Nvidia doesn’t have stock by then.
And, well…here we are in this article.
PC gaming is the best deal, eh?
Consider buying a previous generation card. You can sometimes find good deals on used ones.
Yeah. I bought a 3060 on eBay for $240 a few weeks ago. Works great.
Brand new Intel ARC B580 puts up numbers in the 4060 range and only costs around $250
I usually buy AMD for their open-source support. I wanted nvidia this time around to fiddle with AI stuff, which is better-supported on nvidia right now.
fiddle with AI stuff
I.e. one of the same things that causing gouging on GPUs and the market to be pushed out of gamers hands.
People at home using their gpus for a mix of gaming and local ai are not really the source of that issue
I was upgrading anyway. My RX 580 wasn’t cutting it for games any more.
For years now the prices on this year’s latest cards are so high that I don’t know who buys them. I can afford to spend $1000 but I never would when I can probably get 85% of the performance for $250.
Out of curiosity, what GPU is getting 85% of a 5080’s performance at $250? Genuine question.
This is what I got from the article as well. Jesus, buy a previous gen GPU and fiddle a bit with your graphic settings, it’s just games, not life or death.
I actually had thought of that too, but see my reply to someone else further below:
Good luck finding a used one that isn’t barely on its last legs from being poorly OC’d/cooled, or is just an outright brick that burned out in a crypto mining farm and is now being resold by a shell entity of a shell entity of a shell entity on Amazon or Ebay.
I’ve been telling myself since about 2016 that I would save up to go all in and build a solid gaming desktop.
Finally, I was at the point of “Fuck it, I’m tired of waiting. I’m buying a 5080, even if it costs as much as 2 PS5s.”
I assume that whatever you’re running right now isn’t terribly new if you’ve been thinking about upgrading for nine years.
The 5080 is a 16GB card. A quick skim on Amazon suggests that 16GB Nvidia cards are in short supply, but that you can get a 16GB AMD GPU without problems.
They aren’t quite as fast on the Passmark benchmark as the 5080, but they also cost a lot less (even if the 5080 were available), and I assume that they’d be a lot faster than whatever you’re running now.
Could go with that (or something less-fancy) and then if you felt that you wanted to spend more for more performance, do so when GPUs become available.
To add a bit to the story, I did spring for a gaming laptop in 2021 because my 2013 MacBook was starting to show its age, and the model I bought came with a 2070 mobile GPU which has been fine playing newer games at modest settings at 1080p.
Laptops and prebuilts were basically the only affordable option in the pandemic, and I had a laptop need at the time. But for a while now it has still been a goal of mine to put together a good desktop. The last desktop I built was in 2010 (I snagged a GTX 580 GPU and felt like such hot shit then).
I’m so glad I built a high end computer last fall because I was lucky to afford it. Now my 4080 S used is now worth 600 dollars more than what I paid for it at MSRP.
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The entire GPU market has gone to shit.
It’s unacceptable that there’s new cards for sale (if you can even find one) that cost more than I paid for my 1080 Ti 8 years ago and have essentially the same amount of VRAM (12 GB vs 11 GB).
I thought that maybe the 9070 XT would be at least a reasonable option if I could get it for MSRP. Of course that launch ended up being another farce.
At this point it looks like I’m going to be riding my 1080 Ti until the bitter end. Sure, newer cards will wipe the floor with it, but I can’t justify the current prices.
How was that launch a farce? I went with my friend to MicroCenter on launch day and he got one without any problems. They had over 500 cards in stock. We just made a line to get in, picked out the model and made another line at the cashier. Easy.
He paid MSRP.
It wasn’t the same experience over here. All MSRP cards sold out instantly on all stores. Whatever was actually in stock were all at least £100 over MSRP, and they quickly sold out too.
You can always buy used. Even a 2080 TI would be a big step since you can use dlss with it, and prices for them are better now.
I would look for a used 3060 ti because it has 12 gb and has about the same performance as a 2080 ti or 1080 ti.
The 3060 TI is 8GB IIRC, the base 3060 is 12 but somewhat slower, probably not a worthy upgrade over a 1080 TI.
I forgot nvm
Yeah, I bought my 3090 used in 2022 for $600USD. It hasn’t had a single issue yet. Knock on wood
People really shouldn’t sleep on buying used. I know it can be risky, but if you do it through platforms that offer some amount of buyer protection for the first 30-90 days, I think the risk is greatly reduced. If your card doesn’t die in that early window, the chances of it dying in the next year or so are pretty low.
Look at it this way:
Many (most?) defective GPUs ship that way, and fail early. If you buy used, it’s already lasted that long.
The 1080 Ti was GOAT’d.
Mine was first in my PC, then it moved into my wife’s PC, and now it sits happily in a Jellyfin server. That lad has served me thoroughly.
I’m in this boat. I’ll ride my 1080 ti until it becomes unrepairable and dies. 🚀
I’m sure it doesn’t help that Nvidia also runs Geforce Now - the higher they price their cards the more it can make their streaming GPU rental solution look like a better deal by comparison… (also since nobody can compete against GFN as Nvidia controls the pricing there as well and also blocks use of Geforce cards in datacenters).
For me, I haven’t bought a new graphics card in a long time. I have a RX 580 that I bought used for $200 CAD. My next upgrade will be my motherboard since I’m still using a 1150 socket and I’m stuck using DDR3 RAM and an outdated CPU (Intel i5-4460).
I can still play newish games at low settings and that’s fine for me right now. I’m not buying a GPU at current retail price, fuck that. It’s crazy that the best time to build a PC was 2015.
Same, I rocked a second hand GTx 680 from 2012-2013, which I upgraded to a second hand RTX 3060 12GB for a fantastic price, in 2024. Still rocking a DDR3 platform with the intel i7 4400K. And that’s more than enough for most games with nice graphics on 1680x1050 :) (display probably 15 years old too). Eventually, I will be looking for some other second hand components to upgrade the rest of the system, but it does everything more than well enough.
I stood in line at Microcenter Thursday morning to get a 9070 XT. I arrived at about 8AM (an hour before they opened), and the line was already wrapped around the side of the building. They let people in slowly after opening (apparently so as not to overwhelm the sales staff), and I got near the front door by about 10. They were handing out vouchers, and they actually still had quite a few left, with almost all the different models available when they got to me. After I got my card and left, I looked back at the store and the line still wrapped around the side of the building.
Frankly, from my perspective, I’d say the availability of cards was “surprisingly good.” It’s just that there was so much pent-up demand, even “surprisingly good” supply wasn’t good enough.
You want to know what the punchline is, though? Not expecting to have much choice in cards, and not having had time to research the differences between the ones made by different board partners, I ended up getting the “Gigabyte Gaming OC” version, which sounded good because it had a slightly higher max clock speed but was still $600. In retrospect, I should’ve gotten the PowerColor “Reaper” version because every other version is too wide to fit in my ITX computer case. [Womp, womp.] So now I have to decide between paying extra to replace a case that I otherwise like, or try to hope the cards actually do get restocked in a timely fashion (and still at MSRP) so I can attempt an exchange? I guess the moral of the story is, even if you “win” it’s still a fucking pain in the ass.
The last card I bought was a Radeon Vega 56, also on launch day (7.5 years ago!) and I was also damn lucky to get it. I cannot believe that the GPU market has been continuously fucked up since then!
Well if you are getting a new case, and are into modding, I adore my fractal design node 202. It’s tiny, fits a 420W 3090, and you can duct the cpu/gpu to its vents with like $5 of foam strips. I have no case fans, yet the cpu/gpu idle with their fans off and barely spin up because they only suck in outside air.
The newer fractal ridge is a bit bigger, but should work much better with no modding since it’s more “open”
fractal design node 202
Won’t fit. That case supports GPUs up to 310x145x47 mm, but the one I just bought is 288x132x56 mm. It’s that extra width beyond “2 slots” that’s the killer, both for your suggestion and my existing case.
fractal ridge
That one does fit the new GPU, but did I mention that I’m also still using a 3.5" drive and a full-size ATX PSU?
What I really want is something that has a layout similar to my old case, but literally just maybe half a centimeter wider:
The Silverstone Sugo SG09 and SG10 were awesome if you can find them. A bit bigger, but they support full PSUs, with the option for cheaper micro atx mobos. Cooling is good too.
Also, the node 202 width restriction is a bit conservative, it fits my much larger/thicker ftw3: https://www.evga.com/products/specs/gpu.aspx?pn=E2763314-163F-4391-8935-EA2C5DFFD06B
But like you said, no full sized psu.
I’ll probably end up with a cheap Cooler Master Q300L, or maybe one of those Fractal Design tower cases with the walnut strips on the front if I decide to spring for it.
The main thing is, though, that I didn’t want to have to buy a new case at all. I’m annoyed at having bought the wrong card because of the urgency of the situation and then not being able to easily fix my mistake.
I mean this in the most polite way possible, but why did you need a new GPU so quickly? Did the old one conk out?
Maybe I’m lucky, but no used GPU I bought has ever died. Ironically, only a new 6850 I had ages ago was kinda funky.
I mean this in the most polite way possible, but why did you need a new GPU so quickly?
7.5 years is “quickly?!” I’m replacing a Vega 56 from 2017!
If you mean why did I have to buy it on launch day, that’s obviously because that was my best shot of getting one at MSRP, or at all.
Then don’t buy on launch day? It pretty much always sucks, better just to go back a generation.
Again, not trying to be disrespectful, but launch GPUs just seem super unappealing to me.
In a way, we brought this on ourselves by tolerating scalpers. Gamers made it known that they’ll go hysterical and pay any price to have it now. If enough of us don’t do that, scalping video cards won’t be a lucrative business and the fuckers will be forced to give up. I guarantee you the reason the stock is disappearing so fast is because resellers have their fucking bots set up to spam all the retailer web sites, and the rest is people trying to compete with them.
What a rat race. Fuck the entire thing.
We have it better than we’ve ever had it at any point in the past, also: Broad PCI-E backwards compatibility means you can stick your old card in your new board and tough it out for a few months until the fervor dies down and/or the scalpers lose their shirts sitting on their inventory.
In EU basically the retailers were using on the fly price adjustment to gauge their own customers. There were several models at MSRP but all models that were AIB OC versions started at 749-799€ and were dynamically adjusted upwards. I know personally of several cases where people bought and were charged for the early cheaper price and the etailer cancelled their order to fulfill 100€ more expensive prices they were practicing post hoc. We need to amend legislation to make any sale binding from the moment you’re charged any amount. In CZ the seller Alza was doing this.
Sounds like an auction with extra steps.
Basically, they outscalped the scalpers…
I just got the sole rx7900xtx I could find in the state last week.
Glad I didn’t wait for this :/
Honestly, I’m just keeping my money in my saving account. No way I’m spending my hard-earned money on overpriced stuff, I can wait a while longer, and I’m considering a Steam Deck as my daily driver. Not a beast, but not excessively priced either.
Same. I’m happy with my 7900XTX that I bought in 2023.
These days I only use Amazon for small things, and lately have decided to go back to individual specific websites for whatever it is I need. There’s hardly even a price difference at this point.
I was looking to get a 7900 XTX, and then once the 5090 released all the sellers jacked the price up on the 7900 XTX to about $1500 USD
Naturally.
I’m not gonna lie, it’s really tempting to just sell my 7900XTX for basically what I paid for it ($1000) and pick up a 9070XT for $600 instead. Easy $400 that I can throw at my motorcycle project.
Agreed, I’m pretty content with my gtx 1660 and steam deck.
As much as I want a high end gaming PC, I’m fairly happy with the combination of ps5 for the heavier stuff and steam deck for everything else + emulation (including some switch) and streaming from the ps5 to SD for cozy gaming. I realize this is not a cheap combination by any means, but for the same price you’d get a PC that’s just barely above the ps5 in ability. I’ll invest in a PC further down the line
Also, I must say AMD makes great hardware, and tries as hard as it can to price/sell them uncompetitively.
The MI300X? Better than the H100, yet no one bought them because they priced gouge them, and priced gouged any sane lesser GPU for a dev machines. People would have worked around the funky software stack, but no.
Pro cards? Total joke. Gaming? See the article.
Even Strix Halo, the framework APU, is price gouged to hell. A cheap 32/40CU config with one cut-down CCD would be killer, but no, it’s mega expensive or a completely neutered integrated GPU, your choice.
I really don’t get it. The only explanation I can think of the Nvidia/AMD CEOs are colluding because they are second cousins (and they are actually second cousins).
The GPU market is a goddamn disaster. Nvidia can’t even put the right amount of ROPs on a card or back up their “5070 is a 4090 hurr durr” claims, AMD ditching higher end GPUs, melting connectors, AI, AI, AI!!, etc. Even with Intel’s Arc GPUs it’s not enough to compete when Nvidia has all the market share in consumer cards.
I’ve got a 7800xt, a few 3090s in various gaming/video editing systems and a RX 6400 for a backup card. I’m not buying any more until this AI bubble bursts and cards start having actual amounts of uplift from generation to generation and when I can buy one without them getting botted to hell and back.
You should sell the 3090s now. Prices for them are freaking nuts, probably as high as they’ll ever be.
I’m using them lol I know I could sell all 3 for a good price, 2 are EVGA K|ngP|n cards and one is a FE that has a very good overclock potential. I’m not looking to upgrade now, they still work fine.
Oh yeah, you could swap a kingpin for a 4080 if you wanted, lol. Everyone wants 24GB for local AI.
But honestly they will still probably be expensive if/when you sell them, so no rush I guess :P
Everyone deserves more choices. We need European gpus now!
I mean, as much as I like to criticize chip companies, it’s across the board.
In most industries, the owners are sticking it extra hard to the consumer.
All this article does is say tsk tsk instead of recognizing the late stage capitalism and pointing out our few options.
The golden ticket for me is buying previous gen. Used.
I picked up a 7950 during the crypto crash. A 980 TI when everyone was doing exactly this and jumping on new stuff. My used 3090 is like $200 more than when I bought it, last I checked.
And the risk of it being faulty? Heck, I could’ve bought two of them and still come out ahead of these stupid new card prices.
This gen is still pretty screwed, though. 7900 prices may drop some with this, but still…
I had thought of that, but the 4080’s/4090’s were going for significantly more than the next gen cards were going for at MSRP.
I mean, look at this, the 5080 is MSRP $999 but here’s Newegg’s 4080s:
And looking at the “Buy it Now” prices for used models on eBay isn’t much better:
7900s aren’t as outrageous:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=amd+7900&_odkw=rtx+4080&_udhi=1000
You are not wrong though, those 4080 prices are messed up.
It is very tempting. Would definitely recommend for anyone who needs something.
My current laptop that I bought during the pandemic shortages has a 2070 mobile chip which still works fine-ish for newer games. I’m tempted to look at basically anything better, but I’m not truly in a rush to upgrade just yet and want to make sure whatever I upgrade to is worth the price.
The main reason for my impetus at present was to try to get ahead of the Trump tariff price hikes, but I’ve basically accepted that as unavoidable at this point.
Where I live Nvidia GPUs are insanely priced or nonexistent while AMD sans 9070 has decent prices, check AMD cards too.
Absolutely, I have been. I was looking at some last-gen AMD cards, but used 7900 GREs and XTs are going for almost as much as an MSRP 5080, and unopened ones are going for the same or more.
If I had an immediate need for a card, I’d likely settle for that, but I’m still willing to be patient while keeping an eye on in-stock listings. I’m fortunate enough to at least have a PS5 and a decent laptop that can run newer PC games on modest settings, so I’m not in a rush.
Insane
And some people wonder why I have near homicidal tendencies towards cryptobros and/or AI evangelist. This pretty much sums it up.
I consider myself an “AI evangelist,” but I hate Altman with a burning passion, probably more than you do, and hate data centers burning the planet.
I think running models locally, as hackable tools you understand, trained on very modest hardware (as Chinese companies are doing by necessity with the import restrictions), is a distinct thing. Doubly so if bitnet takes off and running stuff on-device becomes super cheap.
I feel like there’s even a smaller group of programmers that used blockchain for utilitarian purposes, and not pyramid schemes, but TBH it seems vanishingly small.
What I’m saying is… the problem is not AI, it’s billionaires.
It’s always billionaires.
Most of my hatred for it (if you can call it that) has to do with putting AI in everything. Blockchain makes sense in certain instances. I wouldn’t say for money, but for information tracking etc. AI LLM’s make sense in certain instances. But it’s everywhere and it’s taking the place of tech I use daily but doing a worse job overall by a wide enough margin that I just can’t stand it. And I don’t understand why companies want to put it in everything except that they don’t want to be the only ones not shilling it.
There are always people who come out of the woodwork to claim it works for them but half of them don’t even have a good understanding of how or why it works for them, and a lot of them are just lazy. I look at AI as a bandaid type tech in most of its applications right now and I’m tired of fighting to opt out of it.
It’s just corporations being shitty and cultish, no different than usual.
The sad thing in LLMs can be quite cool with the right implementations (like structured output to force correct syntax, complex grounding, and so on) but the sea of garbage floods any possibility of that.
Why is your hobby more important than their hobby?
They are just price raping us now on very GPU release.
That’s true but it’s a race to the top. Resellers selling cards at a price that is twice or more the MSRP. Meaning that these companies have to jump through hoops not to sell to them or raise prices to make it less likely they’ll buy them if they can’t profit. And everybody else loses.
